I attended Homegain Nation early this week. It was a fantastic time, giving me the opportunity to meet many great people I’ve known online for years. I decided to run a little experiment and bring my Ubuntu laptop, while leaving my windoze machine at home. So…Ubuntu performed extremely well, but MLS vendors performed very poorly. I was not able to get the following web apps to work properly on ubuntu:
- MLXChange (obviously)
- Docusign
- Zipformonline
- QuickbooksOnline
I planned to use VNC to access MLXChange from my windoze desktop I keep running (which does crash, and I then call Ali to restart so that I can access it,) but I was pretty shocked that the other 3 vendors aren’t truly cross browser compatible. So, for now, Ubuntu is my great “around town” OS, but it looks like I’ll have to use my windoze machine on road trips (until I get a mac.)
James Malanowski says:
This is why I run a copy of Windows with VirtualBox … A good solution to a frustrating problem. Once web app designers realize that more and more of us are not using IE the problem will go away.
March 4, 2010 — 2:08 pm
Brian Brady says:
Nice to meet you, Eric. I had so much fun talking about Austin with you that I forgot to try to understand Ubuntu. When I got home, I started reading up on it. Here’s a dumb question:
What happens to all the stuff on my laptop if I make the switch?
March 4, 2010 — 3:00 pm
Eric Bramlett says:
Great meeting you, as well, Brian! Let me know if/when you make it down here and we’ll grab beers.
If you make the switch to Ubuntu, you’re wiping your operating system and loading a new OS on it. So…your docs will be gone. I recommend finding an older laptop (one you’re not really using anymore,) and backing up or transferring all the files to your main machine. Then, wipe the OS and load ubuntu on it. It will make a great netbook!
@James – I think that sounds like a great solution! I’m going to continue working on getting IE up on the machine one way or another. Have you had any luck with Wine?
March 4, 2010 — 4:33 pm
James Malanowski says:
I have tried wine every now and again but have never had it work as well as it should. ies4linux was the best solution to get IE working natively under Linux but it doesn’t work well with IE7+
If you have a licensed copy of Windows then VirtualBox is the way to go. The best of both worlds with near-native performance.
March 4, 2010 — 6:34 pm
Maxwell McDaniel says:
Eric you almost had me convinced to go to Ubuntu as the OS on an old notebook, but there is no way I could do without the first 3 apps you have listed there. SUPPOSEDLY, MLXchange is going cross platform this spring (cough cough) but I’m not holding my breath. What browser does Ubuntu offer? I’m guessing that you just can’t download Chrome and run it. Docusign and Zipforms have become such integral parts of my business that there is no way to work without them. Thanks for the tech update!
March 4, 2010 — 7:18 pm
James Malanowski says:
@Maxwell: VirtualBox allows you to run Windows inside of Ubuntu when needed to run those apps that you just can’t live without.
Ubuntu comes with Firefox by default but Chrome is also available as a download (I’m typing this in Chrome now!).
I run Zipforms and Docusign everyday inside of Ubuntu via Virtualbox with no issues whatsoever.
March 4, 2010 — 7:27 pm
Mark Jacobs says:
Graet stuff… Zipforms runs with no problems
March 5, 2010 — 7:45 am
Jim Klein says:
>If you make the switch to Ubuntu, you’re wiping your operating system >and loading a new OS on it. So…your docs will be gone.
I think some clarification is in order, though I’m speaking only as a layman and a relative novice with Linux.
There is no problem at all setting up Linux as a dual-boot system, where you can boot either OS. The easiest way is adding a hard drive to a tower and using the two separate drives for the two separate systems. I realize this is not practical for a laptop, but you can still partition a single drive (with linux!), allowing for the same result. The problem here is that Windows undoubtedly has the entire drive formatted win-style, so that would involve backing up the drive, repartitioning it and then reinstalling Windows (first!). If the second partition is set up linux-style, then windows won’t even see it and all will go smoothly, assuming there’s enough capacity for both systems. And BTW, linux can see the Windows so all the files are accessible, though linux can’t (or didn’t anyway) have the ability to write to the windows drive. But any windows files can be copied to the linux system and subsequently worked upon, as long as the “read-only” permissions are changed…and stuff like that is what linux is all about, a piece of cake.
HOWEVER, since everyone here is talking about Ubuntu, I should add that in this respect I think it’s a little /too/ easy and /too/ automatic. It uses a boot loader called GRUB and I had immense difficulty trying to set up a (triple-boot linux) with it. Indeed, I finally gave up…I installed Ubuntu on my first laptop partition, Slackware 12 on my second, and an old Slackware on the third…this was necessary because the older Slackware is easiest to use with a dialup modem, which is all I have. I’m guessin’ that’s not a problem with most around here though! Slackware uses a boot loader called “LILO” and I find it much easier to configure as I wish, rather than Ubuntu’s insistence that /it/ set up GRUB as /it/ wishes. I’m sure it can be done properly and it’s probably automatic with a Windows OS, but of course you have to be very careful with that sort of stuff. My end result was 3 OSs on a single old laptop, each of which working perfectly.
It’s only a matter of time until Microsoft’s through. Unix has been developed since the dawn of computers and there are just zillions of people around the world who are really into making it ever better and better. Most importantly, they’re finally waking up to the fact that not everyone is a computer expert and are finally addressing issues that beginners have. The choices are beyond belief at every stage of operation and the control to the user is totally open and accessible, limited only by his desire as to what he wants to learn.
Indeed, probably the toughest thing to get right off the bat, is that linux is /completely/ user-oriented and not system-oriented. It took me nearly a year to really understand what that means…I didn’t even grasp for a while that you can have several users–or even several instances of the same user–operating the same single machine. And they can be as independent of each other as you wish, except for the fact that only one so-called “X-Server” which serves up the windows environment, is possible at a time…and I’m only pretty sure that’s right. With Internet connections, I’d guess even that limitation could be overcome.
Ubuntu is completely set up as a graphical interface normally, but linux itself is more designed as command-line, as far as having control over the deep inner machinations of the system. I suppose that’s not really necessary these days, but it sure can come in handy sometimes. You can crash linux programs, but it’s nearly impossible to crash the whole system…it’s happened to me twice now in 4 or 5 years, and probably because I’ve either got a bad drive or some wacko spyware that grossly affects the sectors on the drive. It ain’t easy to learn, at least as far as intricate control, but IMO it’s well worth it.
March 5, 2010 — 8:48 am
Greg Swann says:
Two words: Snow Leopard. Y’all don’t even know what you’re missing.
March 5, 2010 — 9:37 am
James Malanowski says:
Sure I do … I’m missing not having to shell out $2k for a computer that does the same as my $700 computer.
I’m also missing not having to pay for upgrades to my software or operating system.
Wait a minute … I guess I’m not missing much at all! 🙂
March 5, 2010 — 9:42 am
Greg Swann says:
> I guess I’m not missing much at all!
My take in reading this thread is that y’all are more interested in playing with your hot-rods than you are in driving. Your business, but anyone reading this who wants a truly workable alternative to Windows — much better than Windows and better, also, than anything available for sale or for free — should buy a Macintosh. The initial cost might be higher — $900 for a laptop, $1,200 for a very robust desktop computer — but the aftermarket costs — the hot-rodding costs, as it were — are zero. The Apple Macintosh is the absolute best computing bargain for anyone who actually wants to get real work done.
March 5, 2010 — 10:15 am
James Malanowski says:
Don’t know where you’re getting that take from. There is an initial learning curve for anyone moving from one system to another (that goes for moving to a Mac as well) but once you’re settled in there is no problem.
I get real work done here every day. And it’s done without any Apple products.
March 5, 2010 — 10:35 am
Greg Swann says:
> I get real work done here every day. And it’s done without any Apple products.
Each man to his own saints. I’m talking to folks who want to do away with Windows without having to master — no matter how proudly — finicky, arcane details.
Amending this: An ordinary person could help out at this point by stating the obvious: The thread has been about nothing but finicky, arcane details. I’ll match my geek-cred against anyone’s — I have written DOS, Unix and Macintosh software in low-level languages for money. There is merit in learning hard things. But learning hard things is not productive work unless that is what you do for money. If not, it’s a hobby, a diversion, something you do instead of making money.
So: Inlookers: If you want a computer that just works, just makes you money without your having to nurse it, succor it or placate it with mesmerizing prayers, buy a Macintosh and get to work.
March 5, 2010 — 10:44 am
jay says:
I saw a snow leopard on Planet Earth.
March 5, 2010 — 11:43 am
Jim Klein says:
>Amending this: An ordinary person could help out at >this point by stating the obvious: The thread has been >about nothing but finicky, arcane details.
I’ve been waiting for this! Yes, this is so.
>There is merit in learning hard things.
That’s what I thought, though admittedly I tend to take it sometimes as a contextless absolute. I’ve reinvented an awful lot of wheels. Plusses and minusses to that, I suppose.
>But learning hard things is not productive work unless >that is what you do for money.
Yes, this is true and probably the main point for your readers. So, sorry if I implied otherwise.
Still, cutting expenses is half of any business equation and linux can really cut ’em!
>If not, it’s a hobby, a diversion, something you do >instead of making money.
“Can’t we have both?” There’s a ton of money to be made at pretty much anything. I can’t open my eyes and not see it, and this includes linux IMO.
In my next life, I hope to have time to make some!
March 6, 2010 — 11:37 am
Ashlee Pannell says:
Nice to know that those programs wont work with that os. That is great info to have!
March 6, 2010 — 2:59 pm
Robert Worthington says:
Eric, I hope to see you at Homegain next year. I found out of the convection a bit to late, and miss meeting some of the best people in the business! Next year for sure, I hope to meet you as well.
March 6, 2010 — 8:43 pm
Eric Bramlett says:
@Greg – I think I mentioned that I’m testing out linux (I think I also alluded to the fact that my next main machine will be a mac.) Linux is a free alternative to windoze that allows many people to explore opportunities outside of gates-land. So…why the need to force your alternative to my alternative?
My favorite presentation at HGNation was Russell Shaw. To a heckler, he had the best response:
“Why don’t we talk about religion. Whatever your religion is…it’s wrong. I agree with the other one. Yours is wrong.”
March 6, 2010 — 9:29 pm
Greg Swann says:
My apologies to you, Eric. I did not mean to force my views on you or on anyone. I’m with you completely on getting away from Windows, and everything of the little bit of software I’m doing is in the Linux world at the server level. So I cheerfully concede to you in all particulars: Any god is better than Satan.
March 6, 2010 — 10:34 pm
Eric Bramlett says:
Thank you, sir! You’re a gracious host, as always. I look forward to your advice for best practices on my new macbook!
March 6, 2010 — 11:47 pm
Greg Swann says:
> I look forward to your advice for best practices on my new macbook!
You’ll be way ahead of me in no time. I leave a messy desktop, real or virtual, wherever I go.
March 7, 2010 — 7:24 am