I thought that post title would get your attention. I’m not a regular lawyer. But it does seem odd that no one has even dared to ask the obvious question, “Is 
Marc Davison a Little Nebbish”? Please understand, I am not saying that he is a little nebbish. But if Greg calling Marc a little nebbish is what got this whole mess going, I think it is a valid question. Why the big fuss over Greg calling Marc a little nebbish? Of all the things Greg has said and done it seems a bit odd that it is now important to unsubscribe to BHB and or stop posting here. I guess advocating the end of the NAR or all state licensing laws or all mandatory continuing education or the end of dual agency, not to mention the separation of the buyer agent commission from the seller – each and every one a common and typical and startling, in your face, post from Greg Swann. Lets see, this is the guy who went from just starting his blog to one of the most highly read real estate blogs in existence in less than a year – and this little faction of the real estate community is just now announcing, “I’ve unsubscribed”.
Yes. I found it interesting, thought provoking reading this past year but now that he has called Marc a little nebbish – hell, that is going too far. I will never read it again. Never. I’ve unsubscribed. Me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. Yes, I am also one of the original thought people who just now decided that this was simply too much. Too far. No more Greg Swann or anything on his blog. I will never read it again and will get the existing writers there to also leave him. That will teach him. All 50 or 60 of us are G – O – N – E. Gone. Forever. Never again.
Wow.
Wow. Also, I don’t believe the never again part. Each person who publicly announced their departure will still read posts on BHB. Not just this one, either. What I do believe is that Dustin Luther is one of the most influential people in the real estate blog world and Greg wrote something he didn’t like. I don’t believe his response had anything to do with Unchained or any monetary consideration. Dustin is a nice person and it violated his moral code. Simple. It makes no difference if Dustin realizes he is an opinion leader or not. He is one. And every single person who “me too’ed” was following his lead. Looking at most of the back and forth, along with the various comments it isn’t difficult to see the lynch mob mentality at work. For this reason alone I have to speak against the mob. It simply isn’t “thinking” in the positive sense at all.
This type of “thinking” reminds me of when George W. Bush first took office. Please don’t go off into politics on me here, I am just going to illustrate how public opinion works. GWB was regarded at the time – even by republicans – as a former party boy who spent most of his education time getting high. Even his own party thought of him as a bit of a doofus. Then came Sept 11, 2001. Standing in the rubble of the World Trade Center, his live response to a question lobbed from someone in the audience was so seemingly uplifting that pretty much the entire nation embraced him and everything about him. Overnight George W. Bush became the most popular president in history. The only president this country has ever had who was even in the same league with him – in the popularity department – was George Washington himself. Then over the next few years as the war he started went on, GWB saw his popularity drop to the level where he is now one of the most unpopular presidents in all of history. Same guy all along. I don’t even see that much of anything about him changed. But look at the wild swings in opinion. Anyone who can actually think wouldn’t have had whatever opinion they held swayed by such crap. But the bulk of the population IS swayed. Same deal here. Same sad deal here.
For the record, I will continue to read Dustin’s blog and anyone else’s blog that I found interesting before. Something is either interesting and worth reading or it isn’t. On that note, does anyone believe that Greg became as influential as he is by being endlessly predictable? I’m thinking not.
Do I agree with everything Greg thinks and says? Not hardly. But if we all had the same viewpoint what would be the point of communication at all? A being has as much beingness as he can assume different viewpoints. I’m not leaving BHB and I’m not going out of communication with anybody over this nonsense. I openly invite everyone reading this to also not cut communication lines but instead utilize this as an opportunity for growth. And no, I don’t think of Marc Davison as a nebbish. By all accounts he is a very bright and nice person.
I want everyone reading this who feels or felt insulted by anything anybody involved said, did, didn’t do, or didn’t say to see the person who wronged them, “sorry”. Really really sorry. They mean it. No good reason to hang on to upsets. None.
Todd Carpenter says:
Fake Greg Swann couldn’t have said it any better than you Russell. This blog is far too interesting to ignore.
February 19, 2008 — 11:41 pm
Greg Swann says:
Of all the gifts I’ve had from BloodhoundBlog, and they are legion, you, Russell Shaw, are the finest and best. I don’t care if you call something I’ve written “genius,” as you have done. I don’t care if you call a post “stupid,” as you’ve also done. I simply care that you are, a proud monolith beaming with perfect human joy. I’ve told you privately that you are one of the few people in the world I trust to live entirely inside your own head. It means a lot to me — perhaps a good deal more than you might guess.
(Inlookers, to be clear, this is also the Fallacy Ad Hominem. The invalid inference to be drawn from my praise is this: “Russell is admirable, therefore he is right.” This is specious reasoning. There is no alternative to thinking for yourself. To be more precise: The contrary to thinking for yourself is not thinking.)
February 19, 2008 — 11:48 pm
Cheryl Johnson says:
“live entirely inside your own head”
Greg, I do hope you continue to eloborate on that idea from time to time.
The people I’ve met with that trait are always memorable, remarkable personalities.
February 20, 2008 — 4:53 am
Jeanne Breault says:
There is never a dull or uninsightful moment here!
Keep it up and I’ll keep reading!
And maybe one day I’ll even start blogging!
February 20, 2008 — 6:35 am
Jay Thompson says:
*Sigh* just when it all seemed to be settling down and people were moving on….
I’ve been trying to stay out of this as much as possible. Sometimes successfully, sometimes not.
Here comes a not. What follows is, of course, just my opinion.
I saw “the post” as more than Greg calling Marc a “Little nebbish”. Russell conveniently leaves out these little nuggets from that post:
I read that as a personal attack, plain and simple. Greg says it’s not about Davison. Okay, fine. But in my book it is. Our books differ. So be it.
Russell asks what about all the other things Greg has stirred up?
The end of the NAR or all state licensing laws — an idea/concept, not a personal attack.
or all mandatory continuing education — an idea/concept, not a personal attack.
or the end of dual agency — an idea/concept, not a personal attack.
not to mention the separation of the buyer agent commission from the seller — an idea/concept, not a personal attack.
Attack the idea/concept all you’d like. But leave the personal attacks out of it.
For the record:
I never once said or implied that I wouldn’t continue to read this blog. I will, and I’ll comment on it, and I’ll link to it when appropriate.
My decision to stop contributing to BHB was made before Dustin or Joe at Sellsius made their posts. People can believe that or not, I don’t really care. I didn’t make a decision like ending my contributions here blindly, nor based on any one persons opinion.
I don’t like personal attacks, I don’t see the point in them, I think they are childish and I think they have no place in blogging. Period.
Since before “the post” I received feedback from many people saying they felt I was hurting my credibility and “on-line image” by contributing here. I don’t even know what my “on-line image” exactly is. I’m really not the type to even care about what people think about me.
But you know what? When it comes to my real estate business, I have to care. I get 95% of my business from the Internet. I don’t sell 400 houses a year like Russell does. If I lose 1 or 2 sales, it impacts me, and more importantly my wife and children.
Will I lose sales by staying a BHB contributor? I don’t know, but I can’t risk it.
Here’s an example of just one email I received after “the post”:
There were many others. *I* don’t think Greg’s post makes me look bad. But other people do. And as much as it pains me, I do have to give a shit what other people think of me and my business associations.
I’ve got no problem with Greg Swan the person or agent. His wife is a doll. I adore Russell Shaw and just want a small fraction of his mojo to rub off on me. I’ve met all three in person on more than one occasion and consider them friends. I hope they know that if they ever need anything they can call me and I’ll be there. Hell, after “the post” I sent Greg a referral. Why? Because he and Cathleen are the better agents for this person. The referral fee? Beers. (and Greg has done exactly the same for me, with the same fee. Unfortunately that one didn’t work out. I hope this one does, because I’m thirsty.)
I’ll continue to send Greg and Cathleen referrals if it is appropriate. I’ll continue to be Russell Shaw’s answering service.
Huh? Russell Shaw’s answering service? Yeah, for some weird reason a couple of times a month my phone rings and someone asks for Russell. Seems they are Googling something looking for Russell and they skip over the results for him and call me (I’ve blogged a couple of times about Russell). So what do I do? I chuckle internally, think to myself “Just what Russell needs, another client”, and give them Russell’s phone number. Do I get their number and pass it to Russell’s office, hoping for a slice of the referral pie? No, that wouldn’t be right.
All this bumbling and rambling really boils down to a couple of things.
1) I despise personal attacks and I thought Greg’s post went beyond a peesonal attack.
2) I can not risk my “on-line reputation” by remaining a contributor.
Am I wrong? Quit possibly. It certainly wouldn’t be the first time. I don’t think I am, but only time will tell.
And if it makes someone feel better to lump me into a mob mentality and say I’m just following someone, oh well. They can feel that way, incorrect as it is.
February 20, 2008 — 7:21 am
Teri Lussier says:
Russell,
I’m very much looking forward to meeting you at Unchained.
Now about GWB… 😉
February 20, 2008 — 7:52 am
Kris Berg says:
>Me too. Me too. Me too.
Russell – You know I have a tremendous amount of respect for you, but I do take this more than a little personally and feel compelled to leave just one comment. With my departure, I stayed silent because I said I would. Despite all of the mud slinging and name calling, I kept a lid on it. But you have in effect fingered Dustin as a mob leader and, by inference, me as a “me to-er.”
For the record, my decision to resign from the BHB was a decision made over many months and with much consideration. My decision was made independent of anything anyone else did or posted and for all but an unfortunate coincidence of timing, that would have been clear. The reasons for my decision are personal, and I feel no need to share them publically or to defend them. But, I am not a part of a “lynch mob,” and that assertion I will defend.
Whether or not I have been offended by anything posted here recently or in the past is irrelevant; I find the fact that a presumption of people acting as they did because of name calling is met with a rebuttal with yet more name calling much more disturbing.
>…I will never read it again and will get the existing writers there to also leave him.
If this is your perception, I am deeply saddened and hurt. Not only in that statement are you acusing me (and others) of lacking independent thinking skills, but you are acusing one of the most decent, most hard working and most respected bloggers I know of something that is not true and simply not within his character.
February 20, 2008 — 8:07 am
Jim Duncan says:
I really, really wanted this all to go away. I don’t have anything to add to what Kris and Jay have written other than to say “I agree 100%.” I too have publicly kept quiet, choosing to keep my conversations about my decision why I chose to leave where I felt they belong – offline.
I’ll keep reading, and commenting where I see my voice may add to the conversation.
I don’t do personal attacks, and I don’t want to be directly associated with them. That’s a choice I have made, and so be it.
I don’t follow mobs, and frankly I’m almost insulted by the implication and accusation if that was the intent.
As I told Greg in an email, I was and am thankful for the opportunity to have written here. I considered it an honor to have been asked.
My choice was my own; to think or imply anything other is a false assumption.
If anyone has questions for me, please feel free to email me. Otherwise, I’m moving forward.
February 20, 2008 — 9:33 am
Greg Swann says:
To add to this, I think unnecessarily, I cannot imagine any three people less likely to be swayed by a mob than Kris, Jay or Jim. I saw on Sunday night that they were going to be smeared by this nonsense, despite our best efforts to keep their affairs private, and expressed my apologies by email.
February 20, 2008 — 9:58 am
Derek Burress says:
Mr Shaw:
I don’t think Dustin is a mob leader in any way. Until last night, I didn’t even know he had a thread going with what is taking place. I saw his unsubscribed post when it was first posted, and stated on Joe’s blog I felt that that one one word was wrong (and I still feel it is( but I until last night, I had no idea the amount of follow up comments that were in that thread.
I also emailed you about your social personality thread and how I felt it was inappropriate (more or less didn’t apply). I feel even stronger about that now than when I emailed you. If you will notice in the social personality thread, those with social personalities feel guilty about hurting other’s feelings but look at Greg’s other posting since then. He’s already followed up with more personal attacks. Now tell me how can a person with a social personality feel guilty when he has continued to call people names?
As for Kris, Jay and Jim. I have no idea why they left and could care less.
———–
Jay: I got a game to get ready for. I will email you or leave a follow up on the Sellsius blog later (tomorrow or sometimes this weekend) about the I.R.
Mike F: I also got some follow up comments for you as well on writing.
February 20, 2008 — 10:16 am
Jay Thompson says:
> To add to this, I think unnecessarily, I cannot imagine any three people less likely to be swayed by a mob than Kris, Jay or Jim.
Thank you Greg, I appreciate your support.
February 20, 2008 — 10:27 am
Thomas Johnson says:
Tempest in a Teapot.
Shouldn’t we be baiting more hooks for the ever fewer buyers out there and busting butt to get listings sold instead of baiting colleagues? Or, is business so great in the Real Estate blogosphere that this is what one does for fun on the way to the bank to cash wheelbarrows full of commission checks?
I do find it interesting that once BHB builds the long tail for a blogger (part of which can be attributed to Greg Swan’s attention-getting writing), the blogger finds it very easy to move on, dragging that long tail with them.
I am by no means implying anything nefarious. I would liken participation at BHB to an exclusive oasis in the desert where a traveler, once refreshed is able to continue his own journey more robustly than when he arrived.
To mix metaphors, as a Texan, dancing with the one that brung ya is part of who I am. In that regard, perhaps that is the part of this web 2.0 thing that I have not assimilated.
February 20, 2008 — 11:34 am
Greg Swann says:
You see, Tom, this is why I need to do a better job of following through. I had thought yesterday to sing the praises of your Ning community for Sawyer Heights as the birth of a long tail farm, but I didn’t get to it. Thanks for drawing me back to it.
People have different reasons for coming and going here, and no one should work here if they don’t see that as being a net benefit. But your willingness to experiment with all these new tools is one of the things that makes BloodhoundBlog work for me. My hat is off to you!
February 20, 2008 — 11:43 am
Russell Shaw says:
Jay, Kris and Jim: I apologize. I did not mean to insult you. You are, each, independent thinkers and I know that. I am sorry. It is probably also important to state that I did not even mean to imply that Dustin was a mob leader. My point was that Dustin is a leader. He is so well respected (rightly so) that his little post set off a bit of an avalanche.
I am not, at all, backing off from my statement about a mob mentality in the thread – there clearly is one. But that does not mean that every person there was part of the mob. To Derek, the links to the social and anti social traits in my other post were not only appropriate but something I will never stop referring to or posting. Ever. In my opinion there is no single category of data that is as important for someone to know. None. Locally, I have given seminars on this subject to over 1,000 Realtors since last April (about 20 at a time) on this specific topic. http://phxhomefinder.com/Feb_2008_Success_Seminar_2_types.htm
As to the specific statements regarding was Greg making personal attacks? Yes. Uncalled for, unnecessary and in my opinion, completely wrong. I’ve said so both publicly and privately.
Again, I like, admire and respect each of you.
February 20, 2008 — 11:48 am
Greg Swann says:
> To Derek, the links to the social and anti social traits in my other post were not only appropriate but something I will never stop referring to or posting. Ever.
From the corner office: I find the suggestion that Russell — or any BloodhoundBlog author — should engage in self-censorship to be completely abhorrent. We are each of us free to manage our own minds — and we are at our most noble when we are doing this and only this.
> As to the specific statements regarding was Greg making personal attacks?
And with this I respectfully disagree — and I’m only even addressing the issue out of respect for you, Russell. I have every right to take satirical jabs at vendors — this is an ancient tradition in art. Glenn Kelman has had by far the worst of it from me, but most readers here are delighted when I take him on. I would expect his wife and mother are not, but, nevertheless, I have the moral right and the intellectual responsibility to express my views as compellingly as I possibly can.
I agree with Russell completely about the mob behavior, but I care only this far: This quote from Dustin Luther
could have been cribbed directly from a Stalinist show trial.
Inlookers: If you laugh when I pick on your enemies — as Dustin Luther did when I was tormenting Matt Heaton and Jonathan Washburn of ActiveRain — and cry when I pick on your buddies, that just means you don’t think consistently. What matters to you is neither the argument nor the satire, but simply whose ox is gored. One could wish this were rare. Tune in or tune out — no one cares. Our traffic is off the charts, if that matters to you — and none of that is due to this controversy.
But if you cede your power over your own free expression to the rule of the mob, you will not have fallen victim to evil — you will have volunteered to make yourself a victim of that evil.
And you had better believe that everything turns on philosophical principles at BloodhoundBlog.
February 20, 2008 — 12:16 pm
Eric Blackwell says:
Russell;
To be honest I have not even read the post yet…I guess I should before I comment…but you get an AWARD for stunning use of photography in a post. Once again, the guy who makes a picture worth 1000 words (or more).
Like everyone else, you are a MAJOR reason I am TRYING to free up the schedule for Unchained…one of several, but a BIG one.
Kudos.
(Now I guess I better go read this thing…I have been a little busy lately…grin)
February 20, 2008 — 12:41 pm
Jay Thompson says:
Thomas wrote: “I do find it interesting that once BHB builds the long tail for a blogger . . . the blogger finds it very easy to move on, dragging that long tail with them.”
Thomas, I made all of 9 posts on Bloodhound. I would offer that the over 1,000 posts I’ve made on Phoenix Real Estate Guy and other blogs I contribute to, along with countless hundreds of blog comments and forum posts I’ve written created a far more significant Long Tail than the 9 Bloodhound posts.
It was not very easy to move on. At all. But to say I came here and left to drag a long tail with me is simply incorrect.
Did I learn from contributing to BHB? Of course. But honestly, I learned far far more long before I began writing here. And there is much more to learn, here and elsewhere. I hold no regrets, I hope Greg doesn’t. It was an honor to be here, however short it was.
I think my credibility as a blogger, and the success of my primary blog was established long before I contributed to Bloodhound, and I feel confident that Greg would back that up. He mentioned the search results PREG gets long before I was a contributor here.
Russell – apology accepted, and thank you. (I couldn’t stay mad at Russell for all the tea in China.) Did you ever get that fabulous video of us on Channel 5 to a DVD?
February 20, 2008 — 12:48 pm
Greg Swann says:
> I hold no regrets, I hope Greg doesn’t.
Very much to the contrary.
> I feel confident that Greg would back that up.
Absolutely. In spades.
February 20, 2008 — 12:59 pm
Thomas Johnson says:
@Jay: No accusations intended in my post. I repeat:
I am by no means implying anything nefarious. I would liken participation at BHB to an exclusive oasis in the desert where a traveler, once refreshed is able to continue his own journey more robustly than when he arrived.
I really like that metaphor, if I may develop further: Some travelers may come and only dip a cup, others may come to eat and to drink deeply, but all resume their journey the better for having come. Management is happy that all came by, for without the travelers, the well would soon be sour.
@Greg: Thanks for the kind words, and welcome to Sawyer Heights http://sawyerheights.ning.com/ . I am honored to have you as a member. Now if it would just stop raining so I can get some more zestifarming done before buying season gets into full swing…
February 20, 2008 — 6:01 pm
Bill Bouchert says:
Jay’s first comment is spot on.
1. He correctly pointed out how you left out the other words used and therefore the post was a personal attack and not about a single word (to your credit you admitted in the comments that it WAS a personal attack)
2.Jay correctly points out that your comparisons to “idea” posts are wrong. (you did not answer this but it seems he has you there too, Russell)
3. The mob analogy “me to-ers” undermining these people’s individual credability was wrong (you rightly apologized).
Given these 3 strikes, you must rewrite the post to read “Greg really was WRONG”
February 20, 2008 — 6:23 pm
Derek Burress says:
Greg: If you want to have a social personality, then you can have it. No argument from me there. I just do not think it applies to you as Russell applied it to you in an earlier post.
Russell: I am not saying you should not post links like that. I was saying (and as I said via my email to you earlier) I just do not think it applies to Greg. And seeing further personal attacks and knowing how people with social personalities are supposed to “feel guilty” of hurting other’s feeling, I am even more certain that it does not apply.
February 20, 2008 — 6:25 pm