Eric Bramlett and I have been playing with Google’s upgraded adwords tool quite a bit lately. Not surprisingly here’s one of the first things that crossed my mind…
And while the numbers would indicate that Trulia CLEARLY has not created much in the way of brand awareness in the consumer ranks (think about it 60,500 searches in June and how many of those were REALTORS?). And while I could make SEVERAL valid points to their VC’s about how that is not a great reason to throw another $15MM log on the fire, that is not the subject of my manifesto. This is:
NAR: WAKE THE HECK UP!
You currently have the REALTOR brand. It is strong. You can see that people are clearly searching for REALTORS. (See MLS to see how you mangled the last one) You are mismanaging the online use of that REALTOR brand in a MAJOR way. Homestore is squandering the brand by using the quality of the online presence to extort money from the REALTORS themselves.
Look at the figures that Bramlett posted. Read them Lawrence. (please) What do they say? IMO they say that people are looking for REALTORS. They say that if we FIRED Homestore and made the national listing site a NON PROFIT center for NAR, we could do better. Much better. Yes that would mean some staff cutbacks in the bureaucracy. High time that happened anyway.
The main reason that we have REALTORS giving listings to third party sites with so little consumer mind share as Trulia is because REALTOR has mangled them and is holding the REALTOR hostage. I cannot blame Trulia for trying to move into a space where Homestore has abdicated it’s position…a monopoly position granted by a fiat of well intentioned (but IMO highly misguided) leaders at NAR.
Our listings were not yours to sell IMO. And if somehow we granted you that right, unless you dump Homestore or get them to start taking our online presence seriously, you have proven IMHO beyond all doubt that we the REALTORS should now take that right back from you. You have mismanaged it.
What do I mean by taking it seriously:
1. All photos need to be on the listings. They were there when WE gave them to YOU. No charge. If Trulia is begging US for our listings, why are you CHARGING us for the privilege of you taking them? Ummm…who died and appointed you guys god? (ooopps…you’re right it was NAR. grin)
2. A quality web presence that is up to date. (your current beta is a step in the right direction, but you’ve miles to go.)
How hard is that?
Perhaps it is time we started a campaign to remove Homestore and get someone in there who appreciates what they have been given to work with and is NOT a profit center for the bureaucracy, but a dedicated servant to the people who entrusted them with their data.
This is just my opinion and my manifesto. I would love for the public discourse to begin and for others to offer their constructive thoughts. I care about REALTORS too much to let a perfectly great brand go to waste and get mangled by a bunch of profit takers that are only interested in making as much as they can by lifting the REALTORS wallet.
Thoughts?
Eric Bramlett says:
Great post, Eric. I think it would be good to take the opportunity to add to your list of demands, particularly with regards to R.com. Allow me to add a couple of them:
1) Create an interactive Q&A similar to Trulia voices.
2) Create an online CMA tool (similar to zestimate) that reminds the user to consult a professional.
July 18, 2008 — 10:08 am
Bob says:
It would take very little for Realtor.com to seize the high ground here. These others only exists because Realtor.com either abdicated their position or simply failed due to ignorance, lack of vision or…
July 18, 2008 — 10:27 am
Eric Blackwell says:
Spot on Bob…my entire post in two sentences.
July 18, 2008 — 10:29 am
Bob says:
This is something I can get behind. I might even get involved at the local association level next time around. I saw the results and stats of my board’s recent elections and the voter participation was less than 8%. Seems easy to get elected. If that is a national trend, then I see an opportunity to use NAR to change Realtor.com. It just means putting together a slate of candidates nationwide with the the same laser focus.
July 18, 2008 — 10:42 am
Eric Bramlett says:
I’m with you, Bob. Let’s brainstorm an agenda, put up a site, and put out some badges. I think we all have enough of a reach here to make some changes.
July 18, 2008 — 10:49 am
Greg Swann says:
> Let’s brainstorm an agenda, put up a site, and put out some badges.
My advice would be to do it here. The people you want to recruit are already here, and the conversation can be self-sustaining here. The juice we can ship back from here will make other conversations echo more loudly in Google, too. No pressure. I’m cool either way, but if you want to manage the campaign from here, I’m 100% behind you.
July 18, 2008 — 11:00 am
Eric Bramlett says:
I’m down with that.
July 18, 2008 — 1:56 pm
Eric Blackwell says:
Likewise.
@Bob-I really like the idea of folks getting elected with a narrow focus of creating some specific changes. It was apathy that brought leaders in who caused this problem. That same apathy allows room for the passionate to create change.
July 18, 2008 — 2:04 pm
Dave Phillips says:
Can you handle the truth?
First, Move.com took over for Homestore a couple years ago. That’s irrelivant, but thought you might like to know.
Second, you need to understand that NAR signed a lifetime deal with Homestore/Move.com and can not get out of the deal. While that “lifetime deal” seems really stupid now, you have to remember the context that it was negotiated in. At that time, mid 90’s, NAR was in the middle of one of the biggest failures in the history of the association. They had attempted to create the REALTORS Information Network (RIN), which was basically an attempt to take on Microsoft for the operation rights to your desktop. That silly idea imploded quickly, but not until something like $13 million had been spent.
RIN was a reaction to the famous “Lions over the Hill” speech given by NAR President Billy Chee. I witnessed the speech live and it was magnificent and powerful and moved a tech-illiterate group past their capabilities. When RIN imploded, Homestore was there to save the day and keep Microsoft from making real estate agents obsolete. It was a lifetime deal in return for bailing out the failed RIN and thus, R.com was born.
At the time and under the context, a lifetime agreement was probably a good deal. When Homestore went public, many local associations and NAR profitted greatly. NAR made something like $56 million selling their stock and my association made several thousand as well. Unfortunately, scandal within the leadership of R.com sent a few to jail and deminished the trust of stockholders. Now the stock trades for a few bucks.
3 years ago I met with R.com senior execs and tried to negoiate a deal that would upgrade all my members to the status that was considered premium, but should be standard. I was willing to pay for that because it could be a service to our members. They are still thinking about my offer. Essentially, I was trying to cut a deal to make R.com a member service instead of a member nusance. I’m still waiting to hear if they will accept my offer.
Today, there is a little hope – although I am very skeptical. As I reported a few months ago – https://www.bloodhoundrealty.com/BloodhoundBlog/?p=3048 – the NAR leadership is putting whatever pressure they can (and it is not much, unfortunately) to get competitive. They made some services that were premium into standard services, but it is too little to really make them a member service instead of a member nusance.
If you want to change R.com, convince your local MLS to stop sending them listings and for god sake, stop sending them the premium member fees. We should pay R.com to be our web site, but just like any other member service, it should be paid as dues. As long as serveal thousand members are willing to pay them a very high fee, nothing will change. God knows I’ve tried to convince them with logic. They simply do not get the disconnect that every member feels. NAR leadership is not to blame. Move,com is not even aware that they are already irrelivant and that the only hope of salvation is to re-position themselves as a member service.
July 18, 2008 — 5:40 pm
Greg Swann says:
Divorce the commissions and all of it dies just like that.
The NAR is a vampire. Drive a stake in its heart and let’s get on with honest commerce.
July 18, 2008 — 6:00 pm
Dave Phillips says:
I found a link to the text of Billy Chee’s 1993 Lion’s over the Hill Speech. You should read it to see the context of the day.
http://www.realtor.org/wps/wcm/connect/53d43a004891c53fb624fe0c8bc1f2ed/chee1993.pdf?mod=ajperes&cacheid=53d43a004891c53fb624fe0c8bc1f2ed
July 18, 2008 — 6:49 pm
Eric Blackwell says:
Dave;
First off, thanks for the clarification on how it started. I knew that it was Move.com now…but I am not a guy that is into semantics.
I wouldn’t know Billy Chee from George Thorogood, and that too doesn’t matter. I do appreciate the historical perspective Dave..and know that on a personal level I appreciate your efforts.
Realtor.com negotiated with NAR and cut the deal. They created a hostage situation. Just like in the movie “Speed”, the right way to get out of that is “Shoot the hostage.” NAR gave away the data…but they did not and cannot give away the free will of the individual REALTORS.
If ENOUGH people get together and say “Hell, No. We ain’t paying your stooooopid fee.” and if they do it all at once, then Errol’s got a problem. He HAS to answer to a board of directors too. You can imprison NAR, but not US.
Somebody forgot that we are not gonna kneel.
Since NAR’s leadership is limited to negotiating with terrorists, the ONLY right thing to do is for the PEOPLE in this democracy of an organization to take the power back. By force if they must.
You are doing the best you think you can by trying to cut a deal. The reality is that the natives need to get restless in order for the executives at R.com to worry. WE ARE THEIR ONLY FEAR.
This post needs to be in every bathroom stall in every real estate brokerage in the land and we need to crank up the publicity machine that we aren’t gonna take it.
Please don’t misunderstand. I am not angry. It’s just that when I hear stuff like ‘Billy Chee sold REALTORS down the river for a lifetime and there is nothing we can do..’ My first thought goes to ‘Taxation without Representation’ and I start looking for tea and a place to dump it. Seriously.
All it takes is an uprising from around the country and an alternative. That alternative is to not pay the fees and make it a big enough campaign that you can expose this deal to the light of day with your sellers. Once they see that there are REASONS why we are not paying R.com the extortion fee, then it is on and we will be free.
May this site be the birthplace of that freedom.
And maybe we can free some of the NAR execs/hostages who are now held captive by their predecessors by acting INDIVIDUALLY with courage in explaining WHY we are not gonna pay for Realtor.com’s extortion fee.
We can do this. Who’s with me?
July 19, 2008 — 1:31 am
Eric Blackwell says:
Greg;
Perhaps, we need a page on here for people to take the pledge that they will not pay any more R.com extortion fees until R.com agree to post the ENTIRE listing on their site including ALL pictures?
And then we could start telling ALL of our REALTOR friends to come here and take the pledge? And as that list gets into the thousands (tens?) maybe that will be pressure enough for them to change this policy and start giving our consumers what they paid for?
I’d bet we could get a page that said REALTOR.com Freedom Pledge or some such ranked on the first page for the term REALTOR.com, no?
I think it also would be a great way to bring more REALTOR friends here and help them learn how to succeed in today’s market as a FREE REALTOR and not as a captive.
Thoughts?
July 19, 2008 — 1:39 am
Dave Phillips says:
Eric,
I’m a bit uncomfortable with any mass call to withdraw from R.com. That sounds like a boycot and I’m not with that. I am for raising hell with R.com and NAR and demanding that they save our most visible branding opportunity from extinction. NAR leadership sees the problem, but it is very difficult to change a successful business model (yes, R.com is a successful model for them) until it starts to show signs of failing. Many Realtors and firms had that same trouble changing thier business model back in the boom days. Some are starting to now that the market slowed, but if it aint broke, why fix it.
It would be a leap of faith for R.com to become a true member service, but if they commit to that leap, they will be way more successful than they could ever hope to be under the current model.
For clarity, I did not say Billy Chee sold us down the river. In fact, I do not blame anyone for the lifetime deal. It was the best decision at the time and hindsight is not fair to judge them with.
July 19, 2008 — 10:25 am
Eric Bramlett says:
Dave –
I don’t think it would serve anyone’s interests to withdraw from R.com. I think it would highly devalue the site before we’re able to take it back and improve it.
If there’s a call to arms here, I think it should be “boycott R.com’s featured listings.” Let’s hit them in their wallet and show them our list of demands.
Thoughts?
July 19, 2008 — 11:46 am
Eric Blackwell says:
@Dave-
First off, you are totally correct that it is not fair to judge folks with hindsight…We do however have to move forward and the question is one of: Are we willing to put up with a lifetime agreement and them not taking us seriously.
I think we all agree (as you said, even NAR execs) realize that changes need to be made.
I think we HAVE to boycott the featured listings it to get them to take things seriously. I don’t beleive that Errol does at this point. I am POSITIVE that Mr. Dalton did not.
I don’t think it will devalue the site. The point is THEY are devaluing the REALTOR brand with the way they are running the site (i.e. one photo or pay the ransom).
My point is that in Louisville for example, they are essentially irrelevant…and Trulia and others are trying to come in to fill that void. Why?
Because R.com’s business model is bent on showing an inferior product to the consumer or else. It essentially is pitting one interest against the other…when the REALTOR should be THE information source. I do not think that is a successful business model. I think that is a very wrongheaded approach.
You know that I think highly of you Dave, but can you help me undersstand why ANYONE at any trade association would consider a business model that puts their members financial interests and the members customers’ interests 180 degrees at odds a successful business model?
Currently my thinking is that it is a failed business model with a lot of people trying to keep the natives from getting restless while they’re pulling $$$ from our collective pockets each year. If all of the individual agents in our office went for the enchanced listings it would run well over $60,000 per year. And that is to get the listings online that WE gave them.
I’d love to change that or look at it in a more positive vein. Can you help me see it in a different light?
Best;
Eric
July 19, 2008 — 12:22 pm
Bob in San Diego says:
If raising hell is merely complaining loudly, then as long as they make money, they will simply ignore us. There are only two ways you’ll get change:
1. show them that intelligent change equals greater profits.
2. show them that by not changing, their profits will decrease.
It doesn’t look like NAR has made any headway with option #1.
Option #2 means boycott.
I’ll seek a local position next election and run on the position that we need to take back our business and trademark from those that have sold us out. If raising hell is what it takes, then no problem. But if NAR doesn’t move on Move.com soon, then we’ll push a boycott supported by a slate of candidates nationwide. If we have to take over local boards to get to state boards to reshape the mindset of NAR, then that is what we will do.
I have seen the numbers, and it wont take much involvement to over throw the current regime.
There were many of us who hated that deal at the time. It wasn’t the best deal at the time – it was the most attractive. There is a difference. Doesn’t matter though. What matters is where we go from here.
One could argue that on their current course, they are already devaluing Realtor.com. Once the new RETS standard is in place and agents have the ability to upload listings FOR FREE to Gbase, Zillow, et al, when they input a new listing, the death knell for the current R.com biz model will have sounded.
July 19, 2008 — 12:37 pm
Eric Blackwell says:
Dang Bob…
That was almost stereo! (grin)
Best;
Eric
July 19, 2008 — 12:40 pm
Eric Blackwell says:
BTW- I just re-read my comment up there Dave…did not mean to imply that you thought Billy Chee sold us down the river. Sorry for that. As always, I do not want to put words in peoples mouths…
Best;
Eric
July 19, 2008 — 12:49 pm
Heather Lawson says:
I am on board for not paying for a featured listing package, or any other upgrades. I find r.com’s advertising directly to home sellers extremely annoying. “Ask your Realtor to advertise here”. I wish home sellers would understand why we refuse to be strongarmed by them. I try to direct their attention elswhere, but everyone knows r.com.
July 19, 2008 — 1:57 pm
Dave Phillips says:
Eric,
I picked my words carefully when I said “R.com is a successful model for them.” It is NOT a successful business model for the membership of NAR, but it is for the cash flow of R.com. They boast a lot of “subscribers” and have a postive cash flow (at least that’s what I was told).
I hate their business model and have tried to negotiate around it to create a member service for my members. I do not know Mr Errol, but he has a good reputation. If he is smart, he will re-negotiate the deal with NAR.
Here’s the deal I prefer: Move.com spins off a subsidiary called R.com and NAR buys a 51% ownership in this subsidiary. The lifetime deal stays, but now NAR can replace the Board of R.com if they are not pleased with the direction of the company. NAR pays a small per member fee to R.com and R.com promotes our members and their listings. R.com can sell all the ads they want.
This would make it possible for R.com to become a true member service. I can dream.
July 19, 2008 — 2:28 pm
Greg Swann says:
> Perhaps, we need a page on here for people to take the pledge that they will not pay any more R.com extortion fees until R.com agree to post the ENTIRE listing on their site including ALL pictures?
You (Eric Blackwell) and Eric Bramlett now have the capacity to create and edit Pages in WordPress (let me know if I’ve set this up wrong). You can build and revise it as you go. There may be petitioning plug-ins out there. If not I can build you an auto-updating petition in PHP.
Let me know if you have anything for the sidebar.
In other words: We howl with one voice.
July 19, 2008 — 3:41 pm
Eric Blackwell says:
@Greg- THANKS. Will get at it. Likely tomorrow.
@Dave- Gotcha. CAAR is lucky to have you. You have NO idea how refreshing it is to hear that level of openness and honesty. Seriously. Thanks. I know boycott may not be your thing, sir, but it will get you closer to the deal you described than merely complaining. Wouldn’t that be a wonderful day…for the REALTORS to actually own their own web presence…
@Heather- Good points and good to meet ya! The strongarm tactics come because that is what the deal was DESIGNED to do. Can you do me a favor and let other REALTORS in your office know and lets get this party started! We can do it! If you want some marketing tips on ways to tell your customers WHY you are not “featured” on REALTOR.com I will be preparing some of those for sellers who ask.
Speaking of getting on board: Local boards CAN have a BIG impact on R.com if folks like Bob (or you! hint hint) get elected and choose to take action. Getting on board is about to have a whole new meaning! It will now mean getting ON a BOARD and taking a stand to get R.com to quit pitting us against our customers. We care about them and we will not stand for R.com holding them hostage.
July 19, 2008 — 4:38 pm
Teri Lussier says:
Dave-
I have enormous respect for you. For you to share this information is enlightening to say the least and admirable. I rarely agree with you, but I always appreciate you. 😉
>This would make it possible for R.com to become a true member service. I can dream.
Do you truly see this ever happening? I’m so skeptical that R.com would ever change. I just can’t see it…
Eric-
An excellent thought provoking post. My reaction to this is so strong, it shocks even me.
Ruminating, ruminating, watching, learning.
July 20, 2008 — 7:24 am
Dave Phillips says:
Teri,
As I said, I can dream. Actually, yes, I do think it can happen, but not as quickly as it needs to. I am currently in a leadership position at NAR that allows me to discuss issues like this with NAR leaders. They ARE working on this, but they are also working on many other big time changes. It is unfair for us to expect change to happen quickly. NAR, like any large organization, has to follow a process to bring about change. As pointed out in this string, the best thing for you guys and gals to do is get elected to local leadership and lead the change. God knows I need the help from other associations around the country.
July 20, 2008 — 7:37 am
Doug Quance says:
I withdrew from featured listings several years ago when they dropped the nuclear price increase on us. When they told me how many thousands of dollars they wanted from me – I told them to go pound sand.
One of their upper level sales weasels called me to talk about why I wasn’t renewing… and offered me an even better deal than the salesperson did. No dice. I pulled up R.com and started quoting all the non-real estate related crap that was on their site drawing the customer away from the LISTINGS… much of it hardly relating to real estate.
To add insult to injury, back then we could enhance our listings with HTML – which I did. I used to have some really nice R.com listings back then, too. After the price increase – we could no longer do that.
I picked them up again a year ago to placate some sellers… and as of now – my contract is up. I have no intention of renewing, though they keep calling wanting to talk about a better deal for me.
The way I see it, R.com has an established name that doesn’t require much promotion. If they can’t make their website the BEST search portal based upon the current revenue from their advertisers (not agents) and remain profitable – then something is very wrong.
I will be happy to sign the petition.
July 20, 2008 — 7:54 am
Eric Blackwell says:
Teri;
Thanks.
@ skeptical that R.com would ever change. — There are a few of us here that are visualizing that exact day. (we actually visualize it as an imperative.) For the good of our industry and the individual entrepreneurs that are REALTORS, R.com needs to serve our needs and help us CONNECT with home shoppers online…whereas right now they simply drive a wedge between consumers and us and creatte a vacuum that sucks VC capital and third party developers into our industry so they can eventually profit from us as well. We SEE that day when they will respond to what is right…but sometimes it takes some well applied pressure to make that happen. We are about to apply that pressure. WHY? Because it is right. No more complicated than that.
@Dave- In my view we need MORE people like you…(read: HONEST). People who will be honest about what the REALTOR.com deal actually does to HARM the agent / prospective client relationship. I visualize the day when you are perceived to be a moderate, rather than a radical in the hallowed halls of REALTOR association-dom. We then will have the leverage needed to accomplish the take-back and ownsership of OUR online presence…Right now, NAR is bought and paid for with R.com money, so that leverage is hard to come by.
I will be (hopefully) putting up a petition later today (may be tomorrow at latest) here at BHB that will allow individual REALTORS to pledge to opt out or stay out of REALTOR.com’s featured listings until they put our ENTIRE listings online…including all photos…we will be including several other demands as well.
We will be raising awareness ala the Trulia Awareness ribbon type of route as well. They will be on my blogs when they come out…may I suggest that it would be good if they were on everyone’s…grin.
If no one else is going to howl effectively…then let it be us.
July 20, 2008 — 8:02 am
Bob in San Diego says:
Dave, I like your plan. I’m on board.
July 20, 2008 — 10:22 am
Heather Lawson says:
I will sign the petition and please send me the marketing tips for sellers. I could really use those to handle the objections! I am happy to announce that none of the agents at my office pay for the enhanced listings package. We ALL dropped it.
July 20, 2008 — 3:05 pm
Eric Blackwell says:
@Heather- as a downpayment on sending you the full marketing tips…please allow me to reference an appropriately titled (grin) post I wrote on my Eric on Search blog last fall:
http://www.ericonsearch.com/how-to-stop-getting-hosed-by-realtorcom/
How not to get hosed by REALTOR.com
Thanks to you AND your office!
Eric
July 20, 2008 — 5:04 pm
Bob says:
The president of Move.com will be at Inman. If anyone reading this sees her, please point her to this discussion.
July 21, 2008 — 8:17 am
Ken Smith says:
Thought this was interesting, back in 2001 the Chairman of Realty Executives made a little noise about Realtor.com and offered a few suggestions (see bottom of article):
http://realtytimes.com/rtpages/20010417_lion.htm
Eric email coming over for the next post on this topic. There are ways for NAR to take back R.com. To much info for a comment.
July 26, 2008 — 10:12 pm