Skinning cats requires that I’m on the phone. A lot. I’m all 2.0, that works, but it’s a tool.
Anyway, the numbers from a week of prospecting where I actually hit the phones each day.
I’m targeted here, calling folks from twitter and linkedin and others. (People always ask how I get the numbers. Even when the number is prominent on the website). I’m pulling folks into a spreadsheet, and sorting it by called/uncalled. I’m using Google Docs for much of this. I do it at a stand-up-desk on my old PC. Anyway, if I could bring myself to do it more–and I think I will–then its scalable.
What I’m doing is feeding people into a database and then I’ll work them from there. My goals are to: 1.) Make Direct Sales, 2.) Get people in my database.
Total Time Calling: 7 hours, 30 minutes. (50 minute hour–25 minutes with 5 minute break, 25 minutes with 5 minute break).
Total dials: 641. (I use Skype to measure this, and I simple went in my call history and sorted by times).
Total Contacts (where I get a live person and not a voice mail): 168
Leads Generated (people that want an email that’s not just a blowoff): 51
Blogs Sold: 9 (12 total sold).
Sales on First Pitch: 1 (was a linkedin Acquaintance that had intended to do a blog for a long time).
Sales off of email/video: 5
Sales on 2nd-3rd pitch: 2
Per sale, my revenue is $750ish. My take after fees and stuff is $500ish. This is one of my sources of income, and it’s the most significant one at the moment.
So…I attempted to call and sell 641 times. That’s a dial every minute and change. I failed all but nine times. .014 batting average. There is always a serious suck factor when I’m making calls. I don’t always enjoy it. I do procrastinate and try to find something more interesting to do. It is tedious at times. It is hard to stay up and active for an hour and 20 minutes a day. Not impossible.
I’m telling you all this because it works. Don’t let anyone tell you anything different. Failure is easier. Calling people kinda sucks sometimes. No lies there. It’s hard to care, it’s hard to connect, it’s hard to keep the give a shit factor high. BUT…it bears out. Every time I pound the phone, I make sales. And I have the opportunity for happy customers. It all starts with doing what none of you will.
It’s safe for me to tell everyone my business plan. Because nobody will man up and call people. They’ll tell me prospecting doesn’t work. They’ll tell me that it’s sleazy. They’ll say that they’d never do that. They’ll bitch and moan about the DNC list, lumping themselves in with Magazine Subscription salespeople. Meanwhile, I’ll keep on growing, I’ll keep getting better, and I’ll have a solid platform from which to launch my next trick. It’s easier to make sales than it is to make excuses. I can tell you exactly what I’ll do, exactly what my numbers are. And exactly how hard I work. I know I can do better/more as I get my systems down. That is the part of my business that improves next.
I’m only doing it 90ish minutes a day. Its scalable, because as I get good people I can database market to them. Maybe scalable is the wrong word. Maybe it’s ‘accumulative.’ In any case…
…calling works regardless of your business. Wise up. Offer value. Make it happen.
Tina Larsen says:
Thanks Chris! This was just the inspiration I needed as I was trying to talk myself out of getting on the phone today.
May 13, 2009 — 9:57 am
Joshua Keen says:
Great Post! I love it when folks share there #s and are transparent about the fruits of their labor.
And I agree…this game is about numbers.
But saying that alone doesn’t do it justice. On an average day my site is generating 21 real phone numbers from IDX registrations. We use a M-E-W system of calling (morning, evening, weekend) on a seven day timeline. Meaning, a given registration is called up to with 3 times in a seven day period (once in the morning, once in the afternoon, once in the evening and once on the weekend). It is then put on a 2 call system over the next 21 days (assuming a conversation that qualifies or disqualifies the prospect is not had yet).
All dials are made to generate a live phone conversation – I can’t qualify and convert unless it’s a live conversation.
That means…one phone # has the potential to require 5 dials on a 28 day timeline – all in the name of a live contact. If we don’t get them live in 28 days we move it it a “not now” category for databasing and dripping on (only those who “double-opt” in our list though).
With 21 phone #s a day and a maximum of 5 dials to each phone # per 28 day period (toward the outcome of a “live” person on the line)….that means a single day of registrations yields up to 105 outgoing calls/dials (21 phone #s x 5 dials) per month.
So, doing the simple math here, a single month yields up to 3,150 outgoing calls/dials (21 phone #s per day x 30 days per month x 5 dials per #).
The good thing is, in most cases, we don’t need 5 dials to generate a live contact. We average 3 dials to generate a live contact. That’s 1,890 dials per month. Divided by 20 workdays per 28 day period (5 day work week). That’s roughly 100 dials per day – just for IDX registrations.
On an average day, me and another skilled agent on my team is on the phone calling IDX registrations, 800 call capture inquiries (signs) and expired listings for 2.5 hours a day each. That’s a total of 5 hours a day dialing the phone and having conversion based qualying conversations with potential buyers and/or sellers.
I manage these calls using our Infusion CRM – which I’ve shared here before. This is done through an API that automatically schedules the calls and moves prospects through the pipeline with property tagging, double opt requests, etc.
Numbers are important…but knowing them inside out is even more important. This is a numbers game for sure…but one that demands telephone sales skill, persistence and time to develop and manage.
So what’s the payoff to ALL this? I’ve secured 24 signed Buyer Brokerage Agreements since January 1st and I’ve personally signed 12 listings (yes, 12 listings off internet leads). Of the 23 Buyer Agreements – I’ve got 16 closed or pending and 8 actively looking for homes. I close 9 in 10 buyers that sign an agreement and, given the market, I should see 6 of the listings to close in the next 3 months. That’s 7.5 closed transactions produced in each 30-day prospecting cycle. There are 12 – 30 day prospecting cylces in a year. That’s 7.5 (transactions) x 12 (months per year) = 90 closed transactions.
To me this is the best of both worlds. Old school sales on the mass dial/contact levels made legendary by Mike Ferry, et al + the targeted call list generation made possible by a new school “Web 2.0”, tech saavy world of real estate websites. I’ve been perfecting this system (and continue to perfect and add spokes to my lead generation wheel) for about a year and a half.
FYI — I have 3 agents on my team (myself, my brother and a full time, licensed, lead manager/telephone sales person) with 1 additional admin support. That’s a total of 4 people on my team. We expect to close 165 sides this year. 75 buyers and 75 listings. If we keep our current pace we could surpass that goal.
May 13, 2009 — 10:22 am
Greg Swann says:
Man, I love your website. And every time I find myself saying that, I look down and see REW. I think I want to give them a domain…
May 13, 2009 — 10:47 am
Chris Johnson says:
Josh- Your team has one too many. It’s bloated. Cut one and I’ll be impressed.
May 13, 2009 — 10:25 am
Jeff Brown says:
Joshua — I lit a cigar and poured a shot of 25 year old single malt just so I could toast your comment. 🙂
May 13, 2009 — 11:02 am
Brian Brady says:
“I manage these calls using our Infusion CRM – which I’ve shared here before. This is done through an API that automatically schedules the calls and moves prospects through the pipeline with property tagging, double opt requests, etc”
I just subscribed to InfusionSoft. Would you show me how you do this?
May 13, 2009 — 11:56 am
Benjamin Ficker says:
How much of your prospecting time is spent following up new leads, and how much for those in your system already? And to which do you give priority?
May 13, 2009 — 1:27 pm
Chris Johnson says:
Benjamin-
Good question. I give priority to people that have entered the system within 7 days. After that, I care, but I don’t care that much.
-CJ
May 13, 2009 — 2:06 pm
Jeff Brown says:
Chris — Your point about being safe, re: passing on what you do and how you do it is spot on. It’s ceased to amaze me how many can literally have you hand them the ‘key to the vault’ then shove the key in their sock & underwear drawer, never to be seen again.
What’s amazingly mysterious to me though, is the ones who truly believe what we tell them, and still remain water cooler slugs.
May 13, 2009 — 2:50 pm
Joshua Keen says:
@ Chris – I agree that this year, with real estate being what it is, my team is “bloated”. It’s a price we pay for doing business with family 🙂
@ Greg – if you do decide to give REW a shot…give me a ring first and I’ll hook you up with the right folks over there to get a kick ass design.
@ Brian – congrats on taking the leap with Infusion. I’d be happy to show you the ropes, for sure. I went through the CMAC course over there so I know the software well.
@ Benjamin – always give priority to new leads. Prospecting first…then lead follow up, if only because you kiss a frog before it turns into a prince.
May 13, 2009 — 4:04 pm
Joshua Keen says:
Jeff…thanks for the toast. I hope that single malt was as good as it sounds 🙂
May 13, 2009 — 4:07 pm
Brian Brady says:
“I’d be happy to show you the ropes, for sure.”
Thanks. I’ll call you tomorrow
May 13, 2009 — 6:07 pm
Brian Wilson says:
Wow. Ken Brand turned me onto this post and comments and I am glad he did. Chris and Joshua, you are some make it happen guys and it is inspiring. And I actually thought I put in a day’s work today.
May 13, 2009 — 7:08 pm
jay seville says:
Water cooler slug commenting in. Well actually I work from home, but with my 5th child on way and spending too much time with clients and life I’m losing lots of big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
You see I get 40 registrations/day–yes I’m REW w/ my self-taught wannabe SEO skills.
When I do pick up that phone can use my script I get 2 of every three life calls signed up into a more advanced MLS tool for follow up called home buyer scouting report. But the point is these new registrations are often dying to talk to somebody and appreciate the phone call and direction from the start. You just got to get off your backside and do it.
this whole 60-90 minutes/day of calls has been my goal for the last few years and I’ve never done it. I’m a loser. I think getting 30+ transactions is cool…what it is pure mediocrity compared to where I should be w/ my gifts.
Thanks Josh for the slap in the face in good way. I need to learn about this infusion software. And I need to hire more team members and quit showing property perhaps….It’s hard to know where the line is when you’re busy. Is it better to just generate and hand off or to generate some and keep some to work personally.
Talk soon. By the way, Josh, how many snippets do you have on your website. I’m at 133. And here’s a tip for your website to increase your registrations. Allow them 2 views at details of the listings before requiring them to register. It’s more user friendly and addictive that way. It will increase your registrations big time. There I made a contribution.
jay
May 13, 2009 — 7:52 pm
Mark Green says:
Chris, you are a bad bad man – still my undisputed champion cat skinner.
I’ll be dropping you a line today as well. As you know, we are developing the Contact Management component of our system right now. There’s not a guy out there that I’d want more on our development team than you. We’ve gotta figure out how to get you involved.
Later…
May 14, 2009 — 5:29 am
Michael Higdon says:
Josh and Chris, great posts and very valuable information. I have abeen a Mike Ferry follower for years and I was curious if the two of you use any type of automated or predictive dialing sytems? If so which ones? Thanks, Michael
May 14, 2009 — 5:35 am
Erion Shehaj says:
Joshua
Your site is one of the best I’ve seen — And I’ve looked at most of ’em. Tried to make the leap to REW but so far seems to be restricted to “fat cats with deep pockets” 🙂 Maybe I’m not talking to the right people?
May 14, 2009 — 1:48 pm
Erion Shehaj says:
BTW Greg
Everytime I post a comment here I get this as a landing page:
Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 33554432 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 10 bytes) in /home/gswann/public_html/bloodhoundrealty/BloodhoundBlog/wp-includes/formatting.php on line 51
May 14, 2009 — 1:51 pm
Joshua Keen says:
@ Michael H. – I do not use predictive or automated dialers. I like to keep use of the phones as low-tech as possible…nothing between me and the prospect. Though I’m open to giving it a shot if someone has any advice to offer around their use.
@ Erion – thanks for the compliment on my site. I worked on the design/concept before passing it on to a team over at REW so that saved me some $$ in the process, for sure.
As far as being restricted for “fat cats with deep pockets” – I can’t say that’s the case. Don’t get me wrong…I’m heavily vested in my site and if you counted my own time spent on SEO and content generation it’s through the roof…but it’s a passion so it doesn’t feel like work most of the time. And the money I’ve handed to REW for design and programming pales in comparison to the money I’ve produced from prospecting leads that come from my site.
To my point — you can pick up a nice REW “LEC” (limited edition custom site) for about $8K – less if you catch them when they’re running a promo. This includes a custom design limited to your market, some content, an SEO friendly blog and one of the best custom IDX platforms on the market.
For about the $3K you can get a well designed template site + custom IDX – transfer content from your current site and your ready to go.
The flexibility that comes with having a custom coded IDX is the key. If we’re to compete with the data hounds like Trulia, Zillow and Redfin it’s we’ve got to have some power over how we can display our “products” (houses) and capture niche markets/long tail to drive relevant traffic to our sites. FYI – This is what Jay was talking about when he asked how many “snippets” I’ve created.
I know $9K seems like a lot. For most of us…that’s maybe two commission checks…and for a lucky few its half of a good pay day. But I know agents who drop more than that on misguided adsense spends — or worse yet, buying leads from 3rd party lead captors like Realtor.com, HouseValues.com and, more recently, Zillow.com (don’t get me started). You might have noticed in this thread – I generate, on average, 21 real phone #s from site memberships and I expect to close 7 transactions monthly from the prospecting / lead follow up I do from buyers and sellers that come to me via my site.
This can be done other ways, for sure…likely lower cost ways too. But for any “web 2.0” agent — a thoughtfully designed site is/should come standard. I don’t want to come across as a front man for REW…but it’s been good to me so I recommend them without hesitation.
May 14, 2009 — 3:11 pm
Erion Shehaj says:
I was joking with my fat cats comment. My point was that there doesn’t seem to be an interim solution (at REW) for the person that would like the functionality but doesn’t have the jack. And in this 2.0 world, templates aren’t really an option. I still think the finished product as demonstrated by your site is amazing and hope to get to it someday in the near future.
May 14, 2009 — 3:24 pm
Joshua Keen says:
**Disclaimer: This is a promotional post. Promotion with benefit, of course…but promotion nonetheless. Greg (and other Bloodhounds) if this is outside of bounds of commenting please feel free to remove it. And if you find it the least bit beneficial to your readers or other folks who might be interested in kicking their website up a notch – pass it along.**
THE PROMOTION:
I was talking with Morgan Carey (CEO/SEO) over at REW about the impression here that REW sites are “for fat cats with deep pockets”. In light of the comment he’s offering BLOODHOUNDS AND BLOODHOUND READERS a 25% discount on the LEC (limited edition custom) product – http://www.realestatewebmasters.com/lec/.
That amounts to between $2000 and $3000 savings on a custom website, a IDX custom built for your market area), an SEO friendly BLOG install skinned to match our custom design and a featured listing/quick search functionality designed around your market area.
THE BENEFITS:
1. The obvious cost savings of 25%
2. Morgan is offering to assist in setting up your neighborhood/area pages for FREE. (NOTE: Morgan and his team are known for their ninja SEO skills and with a bit of help from him you can have your site ranking for neighborhood/area specfic long tail keyword searches in no time)
3. I’m offering two 30 minute personal, one on one coaching calls. During the call I’ll pull back the curtain on my own REW website and show you how I use it to generate 20 to 30 leads a day. I’ll share a few split tested follow up campaigns, the scripts I use in follow up calls and a unique (aka “top secret) conversion tool I use to help move folks through my pipeline. From there, I’m an open book and will gladly mastermind with you to help you make the most of your site.
THE CATCH:
There’s always a catch, right? This one is simple enough. First, you have to come through me in order to get the coaching and other benefits. And second, you have to (after 6 to 12 months of implementing your site and lead generation strategy) be willing to write a testimonial and share your conversion #s as the good folks here at BLOODHOUND so often do.
May 25, 2009 — 3:28 am
Sue Zanzonico says:
Chris what a great post and conversation you have started here. A reminder for me to get back to the basics.
Joshua, I have seen you write about your technique on REW and am still amazed. I already have an REW site, so am wondering how I can … or if I can take advantage of your #3 offering, to include the ‘top secret’ of course. 😉
May 25, 2009 — 5:05 pm
Morgan Carey says:
Susan, You currently run a template (not an LEC) so I am I sure you could take advantage – in fact, knowing your way around REW somewhat would make you an even better candidate I would think.
Think about it – with an REW template, just the basic CORE IDX and some search engine help, did your REW site increase your online presence / leads? Imagine what you could do with an LEC and some hands on training from Josh (who has a ton of experience with it, and IMHO is well worth the price of admission)
May 26, 2009 — 5:02 pm