Years ago, when my kids began asking questions about presidential campaigns it became necessary to sit down with them, explaining the foundational beliefs of the two basic ways of thinking in our country. The first of these talks took place with my son, (now the Brown who’s after the ‘and’) ’92 when he was a 12 year old middle schooler, during the presidential campaign. Later, at about the same point in the ’96 presidential race, the talk was repeated with his sister.
Here’s how I explained the difference between the two belief systems. Would love your thoughts. (Ready Pandora?)
A thousand years ago there was a river hundreds of miles long. Two villages were located on the river, but were totally unaware of each other’s existence. Both villages were based upon the water and fish provided by the river.
The first village discovered they had families among them who weren’t doing as well as most others. Today we call those folks, poor. The leaders cared greatly for all the villagers, so this couldn’t be ignored. What to do? They decided the solution was simple.
They went to the best 20% of fishermen in the village and demanded much of their catch be given at no cost to those who were having ‘bad luck’ fishing. Any of these 20% who refused were visited again by the leaders, this time armed with spears and knives. The message was received, and the fish was given away to those who couldn’t or wouldn’t get the job done.
Over time, the most talented fishermen and their families stopped catching so many fish, as having ‘extra’ had become a painful experience. Since they didn’t ‘need’ any more fish, they simply caught just a little more than they necessary to keep their family well fed. They had tired of fishing for others.
The second village had the same problem — there was a small percentage of families who just weren’t makin’ it. The leaders got together and came upon the solution they would employ. They invited the village’s best fishermen to meet with them. They asked these elite fishermen if they’d please take some time in the next few weeks to teach the poor folks how to fish for successfully? By teaching these folks how to become excellent fishermen, they’d learn how better to support their families.
They agreed to this plan. Before long, the village was even more prosperous, as their poor were reduced to only those who would not fish for themselves. Anyone who wished to learn how to produce better catches could simply ask a skilled neighbor. The neighbor would show them how to improve their fishing skills first hand.
Over time, the first village began shrinking in size, as many of the families of the best fishermen began to mysteriously disappear. The second village not only continued to prosper, as even the least of them could easily support their families now, but their population began to mysteriously increase. The increase was almost entirely made up of excellent fishermen. Go figure.
What village’s bailout plan would you prefer? Just askin’…
My kids never want for fish these days — they’ve learned to catch their own.
Jim Whatley says:
Great story. the things I tell my son are
1. you need to differentiate your self from others in what you do.
2. people only remember the best and the worst.
3. Everything is Business, learn to sell your ideas and products.
4. Always tell the truth and you will not have to remember what you said.
October 1, 2008 — 1:41 pm
Cari McGee says:
When I was a child, my dad told me that it worked this way – “Cari,” he’d say, “You work hard for your A’s, right? What if your teacher came to you and said, ‘Because Joe might get in trouble with his family if he brings home the F I was going to give him, how about I give him some of YOUR A, and you both get a C?’ Would you like that, Cari?”
OF COURSE I wouldn’t have liked that.
I’m staying with the ‘A’ students, and the people in the village with the great fishermen, thank you very much.
October 1, 2008 — 3:10 pm
Jeff Brown says:
A lady after my own heart.
October 1, 2008 — 3:13 pm
Michael Cook says:
Just curious, which party subscribes to that story above? Last time I checked both parties were spending money like water and raising, not lowering taxes?
October 1, 2008 — 4:05 pm
Jeff Brown says:
I’m content to leave discernment to the readers. Remember Michael, we’re talking about core beliefs, not contradictory actions.
October 1, 2008 — 4:22 pm
Michael Cook says:
Jeff,
We have wildly different political views, but I do have to ask you a few questions on that heart warming story above. Mind you this is with all due respect…When you consider things like sales tax and that it has been proven that poor people pay more for everything than rich people (information and location tax essentially), I wonder if society is as cut and dry as your story above.
Furthermore, I have yet to see a rich person go broke from paying taxes. Your story is a kids story, so sure, it needs to be simple and easy to understand, but I can only hope that as they get older you added more facts of life. Poor people are not perpetually poor because they get hand outs. There are so many other social factor that stack the odds against them. In this system, anyone can go from penniless to wealthy. Rich people simply have much, much better odds.
It would seem to me if people with wealth actually took the time to teach people without wealth how to obtain it, then your story might be accurate. I dont remember the last time I saw Donald Trump teaching classes in Compton, CA , do you? Or when people of wealth supported inner city schools? There are more than a few schools that dont even have enough books for every student.
October 1, 2008 — 4:22 pm
Robert Kerr says:
Jeff, that analogy was true 20/30 years ago, but not today.
Both villages plunder now. The only difference is the way the money flows. With Democrats it flows to the poor, with Republicans it flows to the rich.
Given only those two choices, I’ll take the former every time.
Today’s Republicans are an embarrassment to those of us who were vocal supporters of Ronald Reagan, free enterprise, free markets, government non-intervention, fiscal discipline and restraint, transparency, personal freedom, civil and human rights and the Constitution.
Reagan must be spinning in his grave.
October 1, 2008 — 5:31 pm
Jeff Brown says:
Michael — Here’s what I know empirically.
I’m talking belief systems here. We can have the conversation about whether or not either village walks their talk or not another time.
This post was about ideas. We have two main belief systems here, regardless of how much one side or the other has been corrupted.
One belief system says take from the successful, and give to the unsuccessful.
One belief system says allow all to be as successful as they can be through their own hard work.
One says take fish from the best to give to the poor.
One says teach the poor how to fish.
I can have a burning desire to teach others how to fish, but if their attitude is one of entitlement, that is, I owe them my fish? Well, then there may be somewhat of a disconnect.
This election is clearly a referendum on which village is preferred. It’s about ideas. It always is. This isn’t about he said, she said. It’s about what they believe. Do they believe I’m don’t, at 48%, (state/fed) give up enough of my fish? If so, they’ve identified which village’s approach they favor.
It’s about ideas. Ideas are what always win the day — or lose nations. This election is all about the ideas under which we wish to be governed.
We’ll all know soon enough. The first Wednesday of next month will tell us under what belief system we’ll be living the next four years.
October 1, 2008 — 7:59 pm
Allen Butler says:
Wow.
I have been silent for some time around here, but this one just raises the hair on the back of my neck.
The story illustrated above is simply as basic a way as I know to understand and explicate foundational beliefs.
It is easily demonstrable that the top 50% of wage earners pays 96.03% of all federal income taxes in this country. What does this mean? It means we have become the party of the first part from the parable above.
I, for one, am not very pleased with it. If I were to calculate (and I have) how much of my money goes bye bye in taxes (federal, state, local, sales, etc.) It is almost 62%!!!
My basic core belief is, I work my ASS OFF, and I hold a firmly rooted belief that the government, in its various forms, is taking WAY too much of my money.
I have also taken a close look at what my money is paying for. The overwhelming majority of my federal taxes (which account for over 33% of my total tax liability) is going to some type of welfare progam, be it Social Security, Medicare, etc.
Now, I’m a fairly compassionate individual, and I enjoy giving to those less fortunate than myself. I just DO NOT think that a guy standing next to me with a spear demanding 1/3 of my income, right off the top, is exactly what I had in mind.
My GOD only asks me for 10% . . .
Allen
October 1, 2008 — 9:51 pm
Jeff Brown says:
Allen — Gonna go out on a limb here and say we have one vote for the second village.
As much as they’re takin’ from you, I imagine them sitting in the boat next to you waiting to catch your fish with their net as you reel them in.
Lends new meaning to ‘catch and release’ doesn’t it?
October 1, 2008 — 10:08 pm
Allen Butler says:
Yah, that’s the deal with them really pushing for quarterly deposits. They don’t trust me to give them their share of my fish. . . It’s cheaper to pay the penalty than to send them money quarterly. . .
October 1, 2008 — 10:17 pm
Robert Kerr says:
the top 50% of wage earners pay 96.03% of all federal income taxes in this country.
Allen, you’re missing crucial data: what percentage of all income does the top half earn?
October 2, 2008 — 1:52 am
Allen Butler says:
Mr. Kerr,
It is very illustrative of the entire point that you ask that question. That “crucial” data is not crucial at all; it is actually quite irrelevant. It’s nobody’s damn business what anybody else makes.
If you are attempting to make the point that the top half has all the money, and the bottom half is being raped and plundered, you couldn’t be more wrong. We are not dealing with a zero-sum game here. There is not a finite supply of money and resources in this country. It is more akin to the goose that laid the golden egg; wealth and opportunity just keep poppin out.
Atlas Shrugged has never been so apt before. . .
Allen
October 2, 2008 — 6:18 am
Karen says:
People these days think themselves too sophisticated to related to children’s stories, unfortunately. (The sophisticates are averse to black and white concepts) When it comes to explaining viewpoints to our children, we have used the concept of a continuum, with something akin to the 2 villages on opposing ends. Everyone falls somewhere on the line, depending on all kinds of life experiences.
It amazes me, though, how to avoid understanding a general concept, people will nit-pic at the details, and then you find yourself trying to explain elementary concepts and basic core beliefs, just to get more nit-picked.
Well, I get the basic concept, I’m not too sophisticated, I guess.
October 2, 2008 — 10:37 am
Jeff Brown says:
Karen — You get it! It’s ideas that count. People may compromise ideas/beliefs, but they can’t eliminate their power.
Compromise is insidious when it comes to core beliefs. Period.
There are two core beliefs illustrated in this post.
Equality of results is village one.
Equality of opportunity is village two.
The differences are clear, even for those who wish to obfuscate them. In fact, one might say the differences are especially clear to those wishing to confuse the choice. They understand what would clearly result if the two systems were clearly and honestly presented.
We’ve already seen some of it here.
October 2, 2008 — 11:18 am
Thomas Hall says:
I think my issue is that there aren’t two villages – there’s only one, made up of many people with varying degrees of talent and motivation.
To ensure that everyone can learn to fish, everyone needs the basic knowledge and tools. Once the basics are provided for everyone, the village can thrive – clearly some villagers more than others.
To provide an excuse that one cannot thrive more than another when all have been given at least the basic knowledge and skills really falls on the individual.
The real issue, in my opinion, is that not everyone in the village today is provided the same access and quality of knowledge or basic set of tools. Perception is not reality.
October 2, 2008 — 4:33 pm
Jeff Brown says:
Thomas — You’re veering off the path I’ve set.
True or False? — American citizens can choose to learn how to fish, or they can choose to game the system for freebies.
Yes, since I’m second generation real estate, I had a head start. Granted.
How ’bout The Boss who slept for a year in an oversized store shelf while she carved out a niche in her industry? She chose to do whatever it took to learn how to fish. Nobody helped her.
How ’bout Dad who survived on peanut butter and onion samiches and a $100 weekly draw, workin’ seven days a week ’till he made it?
Bottom line, you either choose to man up in America, or you choose to live off other folks’ fish.
Wanna know why some get so upset with posts like this one? ‘Cuz they’ve been IDed, that’s why. We all know the past decisions that got us where we are today, good, bad, and ugly.
Life is one ginormous, unending stream of decisions. They almost always boil down to this: Do I make my own way, or do I figure how to grab the other guy’s fish?
There’s always a reason for failure. 99% of the time that reason is starin’ us in the face when we look in the mirror.
America’s not perfect by any means. But until I hear you say there’s no opportunity for the least of us to make it, I’m stickin’ with village 2. Sooner or later the excuses must stop.
The alternative is too scary.
October 2, 2008 — 4:51 pm
Robert Kerr says:
That “crucial” data is not crucial at all; it is actually quite irrelevant.
I’ll explain why it’s crucial: Your obvious point is that the top half are being unfairly taxed because they pay ~90% of all income tax.
But, if the top half of income earners receive ~90% of all income, then paying ~90% of all income tax is not unfair, is it?
So, what percentage of all income does the top half earn? And I assure you it’s not 50%.
October 4, 2008 — 8:57 am
Vicki Moore says:
One man who was raised in the ghetto is in jail. When asked: How did you get to this place in your life? “If you were born in the ghetto be here too.”
One man who was raised in the ghetto is the owner of a successful and thriving business. When asked: How did you get to this place in your life? “If you were born in the ghetto you’d be here too.”
October 4, 2008 — 10:56 am
Tom at the Real Estate Bloggers says:
Thomas
You are correct that not all are given the same amount of tools and opportunities. But no man is given the desire to achieve. He fights for it every day.
I have friends that do not have a high school degree but make some great money. They are the ones that stepped up and did what it took to succeed.
I have friends from the top schools in the country who do not make that much. But if you sit them down and have an honest moment they all made decisions that led them to where they are.
I personally walked away from a great income. My wife has a job she loves and travels. My two boys needed a parent around, so I stepped up. Did it cost us some money, sure did. But do I have any complaints? Nope!
I know that when the time comes to earn like I used to, it will be easy to get back on that horse, because I will dedicate myself to the task. Just like I am dedicating myself to raising 2 great boys and having an awesome marriage.
Oh, and I am still earning a nice living doing something that did not even exist 10 years ago. On my own terms.
But the horse that you rode in on, that people do not have the same opportunities is bunk. There is always someone who is given a better chance in life. There is only one person who can carve out the life they want to lead.
And you know who that is, even if you will not admit it to yourself.
Tom
PS And I am off to a class on financial management at a local church with my wife. Do we need it, nope, but it makes her happy and gives her a chance to see that we have been doing some things right over the years. That my good friend is taking initiative.
October 8, 2008 — 2:41 pm
Karen says:
I had to come back to this thread, even though its a little old. Now that we’ve heard that Obama wants to “spread the wealth around”…OMG this conversation is so important!
Robert Kerr: “But, if the top half of income earners receive ~90% of all income, then paying ~90% of all income tax is not unfair, is it?”
Why? Why do you say it’s fair?! Who ever decided that was fair? Class envy…that’s all it is.
If you want to call something fair, a flat tax is the only thing that is fair. I’m not for it, neccessarily, but it is fair. Call me cruel, but low-income folks drive on the same roads that the wealthy do, they use the same public services that a rich person does. If you want to be “fair”, they should pay a little too.
October 24, 2008 — 1:30 pm
Jeff Brown says:
Karen — Notice how those in disagreement with the post’s point, frame ideas. The rich didn’t ‘earn’ 90% of all income, they ‘received’ it. What? From the income fairy? 🙂
One village hungers for another’s fish. The other village hungers for a lifestyle based upon the merit of their own efforts — a fancy way of saying results.
I had an enlightening conversation yesterday at Starbucks with a very bright local high school senior. She asked me why I thought the rich shouldn’t support the poor.
I told her the 2 Villages story.
You could almost see the light turning on in her mind.
What really turned the tide, was when I asked her a final couple questions.
Why on earth would you go through all the schooling you’ll need to qualify for the job you want, when you’ll be paying such a huge tax bill for your efforts? Why wouldn’t you just do something right out of high school and let the government take from the bigger earners and give it to you?
Her answer made my day.
She said, ‘I’d rather catch my own fish!’
What she now understands is the real battle before us: One village insists on equality of results, while the other village wants everyone to have equal opportunity to produce the results of which they’re capable.
Enough said.
October 24, 2008 — 1:46 pm