by Brian Brady
Commercial Real Estate Finance Expert
Structured Debt and Equity
Licensed Real Estate Broker in AL, CA, and FL
Broker-controlled blogging was a hot topic this weekend. I tried to raise some eyebrows (and awareness) with my speculation about the internet land grab the employing brokers and banks might try.
I think a few things might have gotten lost in the translation. While I said that the brokers and banks will claim that it is a compliance issue, I believe that the REAL reason will be that they want to control the marketing channel to the consumer. Here’s what I said, over on Active Rain:
That will put pressure on the large companies to provide higher compensation to the more effective sales agents. That, will be the problem. Large real estate brokers and banks will severely curb the weblogging efforts of the individual sales agents in the name of “compliance”. In short, the behemoths will say that they can not adequately protect the consumer from the unsupervised local messages being offered by its sales agents. That, will be bunk.
The end-game play, the brokerage firms and banks will make, will always be about the money. Control of the customer has always been a competitive advantage for a large broker or bank. If that competitive advantage is lost, the value proposition of a large firm is lost. They won’t tolerate that loss.
What I’m saying is “The Compliance Argument is Crap- They Just Want Your Money“. I’m telling you this so that you are prepared when the NAR comes at you with the “Internet Compliance Memorandum” from their convention next month. I have no inside information, it’s pure conjecture on my part. This is, as Greg Swann would say, “evil dressed up in a Brooks Brothers suit”. My opinion isn’t biased against big brokerage firms, it will be even worse for the mortgage originators. Our evil is dressed up in custom made suits with Italian loafers- there is no way the big bank Presidents will allow their “salespeople” to live better than they do.
Look at the follow up articles on Active Rain:
A Florida broker suggests that brokers need to clamp down so as to avoid SRO intervention :
My first reaction was “I think you need to find another Broker.” This has been on my mind ever since. As a Broker myself, I am responsible for my agent’s actions. It is my legal obligation to make sure all of their advertising is compliant. If I had dozens or even hundreds of agents working under my license would I want them blogging? If I’m honest with myself my answer would be a strong NO! Unless, everything they wrote and posted was approved by me
A NAR insider suggests that bloggers need to curtail their efforts before the SRO mandates it:
This is a pretty important issue for Bloggers and next month I think we’ll see some sort of policy come forth from NAR.
Guidelines, that I think on one hand is much needed. Just take a look around here on AR and out in Blogosphere…plagiarism galore, bad mouthing left and right. I’ve seen fair housing violations, inappropriate commission rate discussions and so forth.
The web and blogoshpere is sort of like the wild wild west…anything goes attitude no matter who or what gets hurt. Problem is we’re hurting ourselves.
What will you say if Your broker tells you to stop blogging? Have you thought about it? Maybe you should.
It’s a matter of time before Big Brother steps in to “protect” us.
Have you thought about the consequences of an “Internet Compliance Memorandum” from the NAR? The argument will be that they established a free blogging platform, hosted by Move.com. They will mandate that all REALTORs confine their activities to that platform and assess an “Internet Compliance Fee” to the users. Platforms like Active Rain will disappear, Real Web 2.0 communication through cutting-edge technologies like Zillow.com and Trulia.com will dry up- REALTORs will be scared to comment.
Who will benefit from this internet land grab? Why, the non-REALTORs, of course. Glenn Kelman and Ardell Della Loggia will be laughing all the way to the blog- and they should. They had the courage to stand up the the tyranny before it got oppressive.
Greg Swann says:
Oh, I am completely ready for this battle.
Attention NAR, assuming you’re not too clueless to know where the bagels get boiled: I’m your Huckleberry.
October 15, 2007 — 10:24 pm
Jeff Brown says:
Let me get this straight. I’m a Realtor who owns his own firm – and NAR’s gonna tell me I have to use their platform?
Are Mr. Jefferson and Mr. Franklin spinning in their graves?
This, in my opinion, if it goes down as you say Brian, will not be NAR’s attempt to control. Instead, it will be their attempt to avoid extinction by a monstrous bluff – while holding a pair of threes.
I’m convinced, after talking to you and a couple other (smarter folks than I) either Google or Zillow (or both) are gonna deliver the death blow to the MLS. Once that happens, NAR is exposed as the 1958 Happy Days episode it is.
NAR has a pair of threes guys – NOBODY FOLD.
October 15, 2007 — 10:38 pm
Brian Brady says:
“Let me get this straight. I’m a Realtor who owns his own firm – and NAR’s gonna tell me I have to use their platform?”
Nope, Jeff. They’ll recommend it. And if you’re Home Services of America or Weichert Realty, you’ll welcome it; it gets all the cats back into the bag
October 15, 2007 — 10:48 pm
Todd Carpenter says:
NAR, Big Lender, and firms like Coldwell Banker can try to curtail blogging, but they might as well herd cats.
The sort of person who is compelled to create a blog in the first place is just the type to go off on their own when “the man” tries to hold them down.
Great post Brian.
October 15, 2007 — 11:41 pm
Brian Brady says:
Thanks, Todd.
Have you run into interference from the lenders for whom you worked? I’m fortunate inasmuch as I work for an independent brokerage. I’ve heard that the banks and big lenders are not as liberal.
October 15, 2007 — 11:56 pm
William J Archambault Jr says:
Oh! How Terrible!
Having to comply with “Reg. Z,” “Fair Lending,” Fair Housing,” State and Federal Securities law, could things get worse?
The answer is of course yes! If we don’t police our selves, surely such thing will come to pass. Mozilla and his peers would like nothing better than to get rid of the mortgage brokers that made them rich, and big business and banks would love to take over real estate. ( Ever here of Wall Mart? I think we’ve had this conversation.)
The current sub-prime fiasco could be the catalyst needed to bring about such changes.
We’ve tolerated abuses among our own for so long we’re vulnerable.
Our Parents and Grandparents stood up to Americas enemies, today we elect them to Congress.
God help us!
Bill
October 15, 2007 — 11:57 pm
Todd Carpenter says:
I started lenderama while I was an Account Exec at Commonwealth United Mortgage (National City). It wasn’t a blog at the time, but I did have promotional flyers on it. My boss had no problems with it, but he knew I was not the sort to misinform, or plagiarize.
From a few consulting meetings I have performed, I can tell you that wholesale lenders in general are not at all keen on letting their AE’s blog. But it has little to do with blogging specifically. They just want to make sure every marketing effort has been checked out by the legal department for compliance issues. Still, one lender I know of is highly likely to let each branch blog in the very near future. The blogs will concentrate more on projected underwriting times, upcoming training classes, and marketing tips. Basically all the stuff they typically fax will be delivered by RSS/blogs instead.
There’s an easy out for retail loan originators. Blog about real estate. Be the hyper local blogger that your area RE agents are not. Soon, they’ll be flocking to you, along with consumers who are looking for homes in those neighborhoods.
October 16, 2007 — 12:51 am
Arlington Virginia Condos — Jay says:
I guess I’m an idiot for not having thought about this. I did think about it at the local level of what would happen if NVAR (northern virginia ass. of realtors) approached me saying certain posts of mine saying specific properties were overpriced for the following reasons were not appropriate. The answer is that I’d make is a free speech issue in which surely I’m allowed to have personal opinions as a realtor….Then I’d go to media with this line of reasoning and try to get as much press as possible on it including talk radio, newspaper & the blogosphere. Often blog posts are empowering the consumer and if the establishment goes against that type of transparency I’m sanguine the media would come along as my advocate making life hell for the local association….Meanwhile the extra attention through guerrilla marketing would reap big $$$$$ 🙂
The type of agent who blogs will not be contained. It’s against their spirit. I haven’t looked at it for awhile, but I’m sure there are brokerages out there where one does not have to be a member of NAR to sell real estate.
October 16, 2007 — 4:51 am
CJ says:
With everything that’s gone on between Move.com and Active Rain over the past six months, they might face some serious legal issues if they try to bar REALTORs from blogging anywhere but on Realtor.com. Putting out a memo that effectively takes away a large portion of Active Rain’s user base (I’m not sure exactly how many Active Rain members are REALTORS, but I’m guessing it’s a majority) might not be the best idea with the pending litigation, especially since it would appear to be collusion and conspiracy between Move.com and the NAR.
If the NAR does come out with a compliance memo that says that members can only blog on their system, they might end up with either a mutiny on their hands by a lot of people who have very successful blogs that drive real business their way, or they (the NAR and Move.com) might end up with even more legal issues because of anti-competitive practices (I think they’re having enough problems with that right now).
October 16, 2007 — 6:01 am
Broker Bryant says:
Brian doesn’t it make a whole lot more sense for agents just to take the very few minor steps to make their sites compliant now? While your post sounds good and makes a good conspiracy read, if you, Brian Brady, had agents working under your license who were breaking the law would you just sit idly by and let them do what they wanted or would you take responsibility and guide them and educate them into making it compliant?
When I visit a blogsite authored by a REALTOR(R) and I can’t even find who it is or who they work for, then they are breaking the law and the COE. If their Broker would take charge now then NAR wouldn’t need to later. The guidelines are already there in Artcle 12 of our COE. They don’t need anything new.
On another note, as a Broker, it is to my advantage for my agents to generate their own leads. I still get the same split either way. Anything they can do to make me money is a very good thing. All I ask is that it’s legal and COE compliant.
October 16, 2007 — 6:28 am
monika says:
Brian,
I sure hope you’re wrong.
I think we’ll see efforts to bring bogs into compliance..fair housing-anti trust..COE stuff like that. Tell me where to blog…how to blog…No way.
October 16, 2007 — 6:43 am
Brian Brady says:
Bryant and Monika:
Compliance with state advertising regulations? Brokers should be doing that already; if they aren’t they are failing to properly supervise and should lose their broker’s license. That shouldn’t be an issue.
A directive from the NAR to “herd the cats into the bag”? Nope, that’s just protection of a privileged class; their broker members
October 16, 2007 — 7:28 am
Gary Miljour says:
Brian,
I hope my company does not become ignorant and adobts this type of policy. I just left a big box company that had policies like this in place. Right now, I would not want to venture onto my own, but I would if my company forced me to comply to their marketing standards. I really feel that are 2 camps of thinkers out there. There is the “I am an employee camp”, which I want no part of, and there is the “I am the owner camp”, which I subscribe to. I think the Realtors and Loan Officers who have decided to take ownership in their business will not stand for this, and some of these big companies will lose more good people based on pure ignorance. Great Post as always
October 16, 2007 — 7:39 am
Brian Brady says:
CJ-
I think the conspiracy theory I have is that NAR offers “guidelines” to their member brokers with the intent of helping their member brokers “supervise”. R.com blogs will be a “safe environment” for their members brokers to direct their agents to as it will be scrubbed by the internet compliance specialists at Move.com
Participating member brokers can then control the content (meets the compliance test) and control the inbound communications from potential customers.
It’s not unlike some of the listings’ deals Yahoo Real Estate struck. Agents obtain listings, brokers submit to Yahoo, leads come back to the broker, agents pays a referral fee for broker and Yahoo to split.
It’s compliant and venal
October 16, 2007 — 7:43 am
Brian Brady says:
“There’s an easy out for retail loan originators. Blog about real estate.”
Brilliant end play. Todd, I don’t know how many times I’ve said on Active Rain, “I’m not bound by those guidelines; I’m not a REALTOR”
Sheer brilliance, Todd.
October 16, 2007 — 7:45 am
Scoot says:
This is outrageous. I guess because we have an opinion we should be taken out and flogged. It’s NOT about policing ourselves, they want CONTROL over something they don’t own right now. How are they ever going to justify their place in this industry if anyone can build a blog from scratch, and in the end be independent of them?!!
October 16, 2007 — 8:39 am
Bob says:
NAR is only a trade organization. Nothing more.
“When I visit a blogsite authored by a REALTOR(R) and I can’t even find who it is or who they work for, then they are breaking the law”
Which law, Bryant?
October 16, 2007 — 9:09 am
Bob says:
Hey Greg, perhaps a Doc Holliday costume for Halloween?
October 16, 2007 — 10:07 am
Broker Bryant says:
Bob, for one they are breaking Florida law. And secondly they are in violation of NAR Code of Ethics Article 12. I’m not familiar with other State’s licensing laws but would venture to guess that the majority of them have laws dictating disclosure of license status in any form of advetising, web sites, mailers etc…
If it helps my stance is that NAR should not interfere with how and where we blog. That is why I feel it is important that REALTORS(R) at least abide by whatever laws and COE are already there. If not, it will create and unnecesary reaction from NAR.
October 16, 2007 — 10:52 am
Broker Bryant says:
Brian you wrote this:
“Compliance with state advertising regulations? Brokers should be doing that already; if they aren’t they are failing to properly supervise and should lose their broker’s license. That shouldn’t be an issue”
I couldn’t agree more. And what better time for Brokers to start doing this than now. Your statement is exactly the point I’ve been trying to make. Brokers need to be aware of what their agents are doing in blogdom. They need to be checking their sites to make sure they are compliant with State laws and NAR’s COE if they are REALTORS(R). And if the sites aren’t compliant then something needs to be done about it. If agents don’t like it then they can get a Broker’s license and open up their own shop and do what they want. As soon as they start hiring folks under them their awareness and concern will increase I can assure you.
All it takes to be compliant is the name of the brokerage and the license status in a prevelant place on the site. I’m still confused as to why this is an issue. It’s not about cash it’s about my license and duties as a Broker. NAR does not have the authority to tell me where and what to blog about but they certainly can make sure the public knows I’m a REALTOR(R) if I choose to be one.
The big players in the brokerage business will be opening and managing their own blog sites for their agents. There ain’t no way in hell they would just bow down and give all this business to move.inc via a NAR compliance mandate. It will NEVER happen.
Have you looked at the move.inc blog sites? They are not compliant either. They are actually pretty pitiful. But hey what the hell do I know. I’m just a small time broker in a small time market.:)
October 16, 2007 — 11:29 am
Teri Lussier says:
Awesome post Brian.
I’ve thought about this from day one of blogging. To me the huge appeal of blogging is the freedom it allows me as a real estate agent, as an independent contractor, as a person. I’m compliant- but I’m also out from under the NAR, my broker, whoever…Yeah. No, I won’t stop blogging if some entity decides they need to regulate it…Change up my game perhaps, but not work under control.
October 16, 2007 — 1:19 pm
Brian Brady says:
Bryant,
I have a bettrer idea; why not do away with the dual-tiered brokerage system so that everyone had one type of license (like NC). Then you won’t have to worry about supervising the advertising activities.
October 16, 2007 — 2:25 pm
Broker Bryant says:
Brian, I’d actually be all for that as long as they had the training required for newbies to be unsupervised.
October 16, 2007 — 4:28 pm
Brian Brady says:
Training is immaterial; they’d be licensed as brokers. Then whether they had the knowledge, or not, we wouldn’t have supervision issues.
This is a whole other issue I’ll address later this week.
October 16, 2007 — 4:52 pm
Broker Bryant says:
Brian, The problem with that is letting untrained folks loose on the public. Granted it pretty much happens now but let’s not make it worse.
October 16, 2007 — 5:05 pm
Apella says:
Brian,
This is a Great Post!
I had read your post on Active Rain and to be honest I was wondering how many would understand what you were really saying. I am so glad that I am my own company, and not a REALTOR because I have options.
I think that if they do a move like what you are predicting then it might not be all bad because it could be the start to the end for the cave era thinking NAR.
To risk the top producers, top in industry education or the more forward thinking members would be just like them so let the NAR shoot them selves in the foot.
Then again there is the option of making the independent business (contractors/agents) that most agents are, actually responsible for their business actions but that would take away from the brokers control, require the agents to be educated in business ethics and law and what would that do to the bulk of the brokers agent stock?
All the while we will still be blogging. It will be interesting to see what happens.
October 16, 2007 — 7:36 pm
Sherry says:
Why doesn’t the NAR “protect” us by working to get our association group rate health insurance? Oh that’s right, we own our own business. It seems like they want the best of both worlds, control our thoughts and actions, but not treat us like valued employees
October 16, 2007 — 7:41 pm
monika says:
Untrained agents are all over the place. They’re blogging away and their brokers are clueless. That’s why we have the issues we do…brokers are not in most cases suppervising their agents like they are supposed to be doing. I’m not worried about my blog but I am worried about other agents blogs being used as bad examples. I’m sure by now the arsenal is full..those that want to control or regulate will have a pile of bad examples to site.
October 16, 2007 — 7:46 pm
monika says:
Brian…I’m not an NAR “insider” I sit on the committee as a state rep. Far from being an insider.
October 16, 2007 — 7:48 pm
Greg Swann says:
> The problem with that is letting untrained folks loose on the public. Granted it pretty much happens now but let’s not make it worse.
> Untrained agents are all over the place.
That is to say, licensing not only does not protect the consumer’s interests, it fools consumers into believing their interests are protected when in fact they aren’t. I agree completely.
October 16, 2007 — 8:04 pm
Jeff Brown says:
Monika – Take it from a scarred broker, and veteran of the RE wars – most brokers couldn’t supervise a one man picnic.
Don’t get me wrong, Pru, ReMax, Keller-Williams, and the like, do their best, which is usually good enough. But in my career, I’ve seen, from the inside of the inside, every kind of RE operation that’s come down the pike. Supervision just isn’t their long suit.
However, there are countless brokerages not affiliated with the ‘biggies’ and they have pretty much never measured up. Even the above mentioned big boys don’t always get the job done, as I’ve already pointed out.
Blogs? Look, let’s be real. NAR, at least from where I stand, is somewhat analogous to the teacher’s union leadership. They want what they want, regardless of its affect on the ultimate consumer. Look at the idiots our public school keeps graduating. Are you impressed?
At least the teacher’s union, actually takes care of it’s own, though in the most cynical way imaginable. Again, I refer you to their success in actually educating children. (Is that you laughing, or crying?)
NAR’s never done a thing for me I couldn’t of done without them. That makes their ‘value proposition’ questionable at best.
Now look at all the things NAR has done for RE consumer.
I rest my case.
October 16, 2007 — 8:08 pm
Roberta Murphy says:
There are some real estate bloggers we hear from no more because their “employers” warned them of possible consequences.
Ouch.
October 16, 2007 — 8:18 pm
monika says:
Jeff-I’m sure some brokers do try and suppervise but I must agree many don’t or can’t.
Are you saying that you believe NAR wants in on the blogs…no matter what?
I can understand the part about guidelines, I don’t want them but do understand why, right now blogs are not covered under artcile 12 and I’ve seen some pretty bad agent blogs out there. Brokers won’t or can’t suppervise them.
Greg-In my state…licensing is a joke!
October 16, 2007 — 8:33 pm
Brian Brady says:
“Greg-In my state…licensing is a joke!”
In every state, licensing is a joke. Click the link in Greg’s comment.
Greg called occupational licensing “rotarian socialism”; I think he was being polite. Occupational licensing drives up costs to the consumer while providing them a false sense of security. It protects a privileged class.
You want a more accurate depiction of occupational licensing, as it is practiced today?
http://www.hbo.com/sopranos/
October 16, 2007 — 9:39 pm
Spencer Barron says:
I hope they do something that stupid. I’d like to see some changes. We need something like that as a catalyst. I think that the brokerages have the right to decide how to handle their own affairs and perhaps tell their agents how they should behave while they work there. If the brokerages aren’t overseeing it properly and an agent does something illegal, I think the laws are already in place to enforce a solution.
If NAR wants to pick a fight, this is the one that will bury them. The only reason anyone is a Realtor is to get access to the MLS. It’s not training, it’s not to be able to where the nice shiny pin. Problem is, nobody has come up with a better system yet.
NAR is content to leave things as they are but the real estate community is changing faster than they are. They no longer are working for their members, their working to insure their survival, sounds a lot like the UAW to me.
October 16, 2007 — 9:43 pm
Greg Swann says:
> There are some real estate bloggers we hear from no more because their “employers” warned them of possible consequences.
Might I ask who are the affected parties?
October 16, 2007 — 10:28 pm
Jeff Brown says:
Monika – I’m saying NAR is irrelevant. They are kept in my largest file – Don’t know/Don’t Care.
The blogging world has one gigantic flaw – it believes whatever it talks about is also important to the world outside. It’s not.
NAR understands that. Most bloggers don’t.
I live in San Diego, 3 Million population. As far as I can tell, there are three real estate bloggers worth a used bag of fries. Even if I’m off a few, and say there’s 10. This in a city this large?
Phoenix is an anomaly. I think it’s in the water. 🙂
You won’t get any support from your fellow Realtors, as most of them can’t spell b-l-o-g, much less tell you what one is.
Reality says NAR will have the support of it’s designated brokers. Brian is spot on about the money. It’s ALL about the money, always has been, always will be.
Our only weapon is, thankfully, the ultimate winner. The kryptonite for NAR, is our realization they’re mostly of no value to us. The difference in this potential showdown is there are a few Godzillas waiting in the wings to pick up seamlessly when NAR implodes.
The MLS as it currently exists, is on its way out. It started the second the first agent made it available on their website by the ease of a click.
What might cause NAR to fall? Our indifference to the value they don’t bring to the table.
Even having a debate about NAR’s value insults the very concept of rational thought. They’ve done so many self destructive things, it should be self evident what their future is, or rather isn’t.
The ironic thing is, they may continue to exist, but in name only. Right before our eyes, and in real time, agents/brokers are beginning to realize NAR is like a carbureator in a fuel injected world – inferior performance, outdated, and always fouling up.
Like most of what they do, it just doesn’t matter much.
October 16, 2007 — 10:29 pm
Bob says:
Bryant, I understand your perspective as a broker, but for me this is probably more an issue of semantics. For example, you wrote, “When I visit a blogsite authored by a REALTOR(R)…”.
I have been online since 1996. I have authored many sites. I have developed sites and sold them. My interests online range from real estate to surfing, from politics to SEO. There are some who know me as a domainer, a developer of web properties or an SEO, and others who only know me as my kids coach, dad and local real estate agent.
My FORCED association with NAR is just ONE aspect of my life, but the wording I see bandied about doesn’t respect that. Slapping a Realtor label on everything I publish, as your wording suggests be done, goes far beyond State and Federal laws.
As for those agents who have become silent, that is there fault. It takes 30 seconds and a click of a mouse on the DRE site to correct that problem.
October 16, 2007 — 11:08 pm
Ann Cummings says:
Brian, I don’t see NAR trying to put in place any kind of rule that would say we’d all, as REALTORS, have to blog on Move.com at all. Making all REALTOR blogs that are used for business purposes come into compliance, sure. And that would be a great thing. As would all real estate blogs complying with their states licensure laws.
But NAR didn’t mandate that all REALTOR websites be on Realtor.com, so they surely aren’t going to mandate that all REALTOR blogs be on Move.com. That just doesn’t make sense to me.
It is a shame that some voices have been silenced by their brokers. In my opinion, those brokers need to get with the times, and realize that this world is no longer broker-centric or agency-centric.
I do think there are brokers out there who are trying to tell their agents no blogging, but I suspect they’re doing it because they have no clue about blogging, what it is, or what the potentials are blogging holds. And their way of quelling that fear of the unknown is to silence it. And that is a complete shame!!
For those blogs that are being used for business purposes, as others have said in comments above me, it would be very easy to bring them into compliance.
October 17, 2007 — 3:42 am
Ann Cummings says:
There are an awful lot of speakers out there talking about blogging, and plenty of them speak at NAR conventions and conferences. I’ve not heard a single one of them even mention Move.com for blogging – just another reason I seriously doubt NAR would push for all blogging to be done one Move.com.
Hopefully, they themselves, realize what a joke that would be.
October 17, 2007 — 3:48 am
Broker Bryant says:
Bob, Let me clarify then. A blogsite about real estate used to dissminate real estate information to the consumer, authored by a REALTOR(R).
October 17, 2007 — 5:54 am
Greg Swann says:
> A blogsite about real estate used to dissminate real estate information to the consumer, authored by a REALTOR(R).
By that standard, BloodhoundBlog would qualify, even though we’re not trying to sell anything.
Two observations:
1. These rules are stupid, clearly at odds with the First Amendment.
2. “From my cold, dead hands!”
October 17, 2007 — 6:59 am
Bob says:
Why? Lots of sites do that and are not operated by a Realtor, so why the requirement for me to slap a broker’s name on it?
Why the term “blogsite”? I can build a site that in no way would appear to be a blog, yet publishes the same info.
If it is strictly editorial in nature, with no solicitation of business, why does my being a Realtor make a difference?
October 17, 2007 — 7:07 am
Broker Bryant says:
Bob and Gregg, I don’t know what your indivudal State laws are. In Florida it would need to have the company name on it. Also, assuming a blogsite is a website or form of advertising(which it is) then according to article 12 it would also need to have the company name and license status displayed in a prominent place usually near the contact me button. Even though Article 12 doesn’t specifically mention blogs you can be sure it will after their November meeting. In my opinion, that is the only thing that will change.
The first amendment arguement on this doesn’t cut it. You have a license and have laws pertaining to it. If you are a member of NAR then you have guidelines. No one is forcing any body to have a license or belong to NAR. It’s a free choice.
What if I joined bloodhoundblog and started posting disparaging remarks and mildly pornographic content? I’m sure Gregg would ask me to leave(rightly so). And it would be his right to do so. If I wanted to play in his playground then there would be SOME guidelines for me to follow. It’s my choice whether or not I would want to play. It has nothing to do with free speech.
October 17, 2007 — 8:46 am
Broker Bryant says:
Sorry Greg, I keep adding an extra g to you name. It’s a mistake and I apologize. Names are important to me.
Bob, In my opinion, NAR will be adding language to the COE to specifically state what falls under Article 12. I really don’t believe they have any other authority than that. Being a REALTOR(R) does make a difference. The consumer has the right to know we are licensed and the right to know we are REALTORS(R) if we are discussing real estate. The question is why wouldn’t you want them to know? Does it really matter?
Greg, My only issue with no licensing requirements is the absence of a background check. There needs to be some sort of a system to make sure, at a minimum, folks with a felony background are checked out before dealing with the public in a real estate transaction. Really the only advantage of licensing is it gives the consumer a place to go to check on us and to lodge complaints. It gives us accountability.
October 17, 2007 — 9:06 am
Jonathan Dalton says:
Local advertising laws require the broker’s name to be displayed prominently so this is more or less a dead issue short of a change in the law.
And not to question anyone’s courage in the face of NAR, but living in an area where MLS access isn’t predicated on NAR membership makes telling NAR to take a hike a much, much easier proposition.
October 17, 2007 — 9:38 am
The Lovely Wife says:
Parking on this one 🙂
October 17, 2007 — 9:41 am
Greg Swann says:
> The first amendment arguement on this doesn’t cut it.
This is something I would be eager to test. We are not selling real estate here, and, therefore, there is no tenable argument that our rights should be circumscribed.
> What if I joined bloodhoundblog and started posting disparaging remarks and mildly pornographic content?
This is a conflation of unlike things. BloodhoundBlog is private property. The state has no business telling you what you can or cannot say in advance of any proof of injury on your own or public property. I have every right to control my own private property. Not the same thing at all.
> My only issue with no licensing requirements is the absence of a background check.
Indeed. Three words: E & O. Real estate agents should already be bonded and insured like other vendors, but we get to skate because of the licensing laws.
October 17, 2007 — 10:40 am
Greg says:
After blogs will agent websites be next?
Thank you for the info Brian.
October 17, 2007 — 10:59 am
Broker Bryant says:
Greg, I seem to keep getting back to the same thing. No one is or ever has told us what we can write about. Really the only issue, at this time, is disclosure of license status and company name. If your state laws don’t require this then the only other entity that does is NAR. And all of certainly have the option of not being REALTORS(R). BUT if we choose to be then we should be compliant with the COE. It’s really not a complicated issue.
On a personal level I have no problem disclosing my license status or my company name since I am the owner and the broker. If my agents don’t want to disclose that they work for me then they too have many other choices to make. If they want to work under my license then my company name will be on ALL of their advertising, web sites, blogs, signs, biz cards etc.. They actually passed a law in Florida last year that my office phone number has to be there as well.
October 17, 2007 — 10:59 am
Jim Duncan says:
Broker Bryant: is a real estate blog necessarily advertising? How does one differentiate between one that is or one that isn’t?
If a real estate news blog is written by a Realtor, does that make it advertising?
Real estate blogs are fluid. Defining them remains a work in progress. Making a blanket regulatory decision based on an evolving medium is foolish.
If I had to choose between identifying mine as either advertising or journalism, I identify mine as journalism … and we’re back to the States regulating them (as the y do now – sort of) as opposed to the NAR.
October 17, 2007 — 11:08 am
Greg Swann says:
> Really the only issue, at this time, is disclosure of license status and company name.
I understand what you’re saying, I simply disagree that this applies to BloodhoundBlog. We are not engaged in any acts incident to real estate brokerage here. This is strictly a publishing venture, and we are entitled to the full protection of the First Amendment.
October 17, 2007 — 11:08 am
dustin says:
Brian,
It’s a fascinating story you’ve woven here (and definitely great for stirring up the masses), but I think you’re boxing with your shadow at this point. While I can’t claim to have any inside knowledge of what goes on over at NAR, I’ve seen nothing to suggest that they are moving toward some draconian guidelines, fees or requirements around blogging and if there are some plans to require REALTORS to use the blog platform hosted by REALTOR.com, that would be news to me.
October 17, 2007 — 11:14 am
Greg Swann says:
Bryant, here’s another way of looking at this, and Tom Royce comes at it today from the other direction: If the publishing activities of BloodhoundBlog are subject to oversight by the Arizona Department of Real Estate, then Tom and the folks at BusinessWeek and the RealEstateJournal are practicing real estate brokerage without a license. If that proposition is absurd — and it is — then what we’re doing is not subject to regulatory oversight.
October 17, 2007 — 11:30 am
Bob says:
Bryant, what I want to know is at what point does a blog that I publish become a ‘real estate’ blog subject to NAR’s COE?
If I wrote something like lansner.freedomblogging.com and never solicited business or offered IDX, would I have to slap a broker’s name on it?
Why is it that I can’t wear two hats at different times? A realtor when I am conducting business and a journalist if I produce something like Lasner’s?
October 17, 2007 — 11:33 am
Bob says:
How about if I published something similar to The Digerati Life?
October 17, 2007 — 11:35 am
Brian Brady says:
Dustin,
http://monikamcgillicuddy.com/wordpress/general-r/nar-looking-at-blogs/#more-158
The only way I would be “boxing with my shadow” is if Mrs McGillicudy is misrepresenting what happened in the NAR professional standards’ meeting. Otherwise, your explanation falls under the “false dilemma” fallacious argument.
I don’t doubt the veracity of Mrs. Mc Gillicudy’s word.
October 17, 2007 — 11:56 am
Broker Bryant says:
OK it seems we are now getting down to the important question. What qualifies as a Real Estate website and therefore falls under Article 12? I believe that is the discussion that will be taking place at NAR. Where is the line drawn? That’s a very good question. In my opinion if you are blogging for business then it is clearly a site covered under article 12 of the COE and would also be covered under your state’s licensing laws regarding advertising. The difficulty will be in trying to distinguish what’s advertising and what’s not.
Greg, In my opinion your site is NOT advertising but is as you state a news source. But what do you really think? Do you get business from bloodhoundblog? Was that your intent when starting this site? Has it since then evolved into what it is today or was a news source always your vision? Would disclosing your company name and license status harm you in anyway? Or is it just the principle of the matter, which, believe me, I understand completely.
I am in violation of our MLS policy everyday by using Range Pricing on my listings. To abide by their policy(which was changed after 10 years of me conducting my business in full compliance)would harm my business. And I will continue to be in violation until their policy is changed or I am sued and lose. Fortunately neither of these things will happen in the forseeable future.
So, I am not a stickler of rules and regs. I do believe though if REALTORS(R) do not take it upon themselves to make their sites compliant with these very minor requirements NAR will step in and make it more difficult for us in the future. I just feel we are not picking the right battle.
REALTORS(R) whose sites are clearly advertising should make them compliant and quit giving NAR reason to clamp down on the rest of us.
October 17, 2007 — 12:50 pm
dustin says:
Brian, I read Monica’s review earlier and I still disagree…
I was not at that meeting, but in reading Monica’s review, it’s clear you’re reading way TOO much into this meeting. I’ve been to these types of meeting before and my guess in reading Monica’s review is that someone on the committee was nominated to create a list of pros and cons of blogging. The cons they came up with are all valid from the perspective of a professional committee… i.e. being honest, truthful, responsible, disclosure, etc., even if the phrasing doesn’t take into account the nuances of blogging.
From Monica’s review it seems clear that the committee realized they were in over their head at this point and decided to table the discussion until November.
When I say that you’re reading way too much into this meeting it is because you’ve taken this one meeting to somehow imply that NAR is on the verge of creating a “Internet Compliance Memorandum” that is going to shut down all real estate social networks besides the blogging platform hosted by REALTOR.com. I just don’t see that happening by any stretch. Hence, I still think you’re boxing with your own shadow.
October 17, 2007 — 12:55 pm
Brian Brady says:
Dustin,
First you said the bogeyman doesn’t exist, now you’re saying that the bogeyman isn’t dangerous.
When should I be concerned about the bogeyman…when he tries to eat me up?
October 17, 2007 — 1:50 pm
Jeff Brown says:
Guys – This discussion looks to me comparable to a couple scientists arguing over whether one insect species will end up extinct before the other.
Does NAR execute stupid, self-defeating strategies and tactics? Duh
If they do make some silly announcement, will it matter? Ah, either no, or not enough to register on the RE radar.
October 17, 2007 — 2:45 pm
Greg Swann says:
> Would disclosing your company name and license status harm you in anyway?
In fact, the name of my brokerage is presented on every page, post and RSS feed — for copyright purposes. But only two of the 15 of us work for my brokerage, and only ten of us are real estate licensees.
FWIW, I would love to have a big public fight over this with the NAR. “Play for blood, that’s just my game.”
(Brian Brady: I can do the Latin, too, including the obscure quote from Juvenal.)
October 17, 2007 — 3:07 pm
Broker Bryant says:
Greg, Actually after looking in your side bar all the agent contributors on your site have their REALTOR status listed. And as you said you have your company name as well. Looks good to me. So what can we talk about next?:)
October 17, 2007 — 4:22 pm
Thomas Johnson says:
Phoenix is an anomaly. I think it’s in the water. 🙂
Actually, Brian, I think it is the heat (but it’s a dry heat} combined with a lack of moisture in the air.
If NAR were to come up with some dread Internet Memo, would that not put the torpedo in the the juiciest, most luscious tanker of all: the independent contractor loophole? All the brokers and franchises big and small use the “independent contractor/independently owned and operated shield” for “compliance” reasons. If a broker were to stifle an independent contractor’s free speech via NAR edict, would that not give the IRS more ammunition to call agents employees and put them in W-2 status? That may be an issue that NAR wants to table for a few years. How many meetings and summits did it take to formulate that brilliant IDX/VOW policy?
It seems that the NAR will be walking a bit of a tightrope for a while. The DOJ lawsuit, ever sillier rosy scenario press releases, and a restless membership.
October 17, 2007 — 5:44 pm
monika says:
I think at most what will come out of NAR will be including Blogs in Article 12. No way do I feel that NAR will try and stop blogging or force anyone to blog on one platform. Can’t happen in my opinion. If anyone can stop an agent blogging it’s their broker.
The meeting on the 14th may end up referring back to the subcommittee again. Who knows…I’ve seen stuff bounce in and out of subcommitte for what seems like forever. The agenda will be out soon and I’ll know better what to expect.
October 17, 2007 — 7:01 pm
Brian Brady says:
“If a broker were to stifle an independent contractor’s free speech via NAR edict, would that not give the IRS more ammunition to call agents employees and put them in W-2 status?”
I don’t think so, Thomas. The supervision is a function of the statutory responsibility of the licensing relationship between broker and agent. States regulate that.
“If anyone can stop an agent blogging it’s their broker.”
Monika, I’m clearly against orgs like the NAR and NAMB because of their bias towards protecting their broker members over the “hoi polloi”. I agree with you. NAR can’t mandate anything. However the implied directive from a memeo gives the broker members the “ammunition” to “appeal to the higher authority”
I’m glad you caught my real message. The evil I speak of will come from the agents; they’ll wrap it up in a NAR directed package before presenting it to the agents.
October 17, 2007 — 8:27 pm
Linda Slocum says:
>After blogs will agent websites be next?
Yes, actually the websites ARE next at some brokerages. Sotheby’s is aggressively going after agent websites that they feel are not “sophisticated enough” for their brand, demanding the mothballing of domain names and the use of generic website templates. The message is to either go generic, or find another broker.
Their VP and General Counsel goes on to say this about agent websites: “Please note that our policy is that agent web-sites may not contain the Sotheby’s name. The reason is that agent relationships are fleeting and we do not wish to spend our time and resources enforcing our trademark rights against agents (with whom we have no contractual relationship) all over the world.”
October 18, 2007 — 7:11 am
Jim Frey says:
All I can say is
hmmmmmmmmmmmm………………
October 18, 2007 — 9:34 am
Bob says:
“Please note that our policy is that agent web-sites may not contain the Sotheby’s name.”
Now that is a policy that conflicts with many NAR controlled MLSs. I just changed broker affiliations and got rung up because I didn’t have the name of the new broker on the site yet. My access to IDX is dependent on compliance with the local MLS rules.
I wonder what Roberta thinks of Sotheby’s policy.
October 18, 2007 — 10:19 am
Larry Hotz says:
This is a real shot across the bow for me.
I just started a blogging site for Realtors across the Denver Metro area. Many work for large real estate brokerages. So far, there has been no concern about this issue from the contributors or their brokers. Sounds like all that could change.
As a former Board Director and Managing Broker, I would be concerned if I were in their shoes now. This could easily push the successful agents away from the large brokerages and the Board of Realtors. You do not need to be a Realtor to join the MLS.
October 18, 2007 — 11:13 am
Tony Sena says:
I can’t imagine NAR would be that crazy? They have to believe that members will rebel which will cause turmoil within our ranks. Aren’t we already going through enough with the subprime debacle, lack of qualified buyers and large listing inventories? Like Sherry said earlier, NAR should be concentrating on issues like a group health care. Our association is one of the most influential and powerful organizations, so use it for the betterment of our organization!
October 18, 2007 — 11:29 am
Jeff Brown says:
Tony – The mainline NAR membership can’t spell ‘blog’. I don’t know the numbers myself, but I’d be willing to bet my $20 against anyone’s stale doughnut that less than 1% of Realtors blog on a regular basis, or have readership above six a day.
So unless all of those
October 18, 2007 — 11:52 am
monika says:
Brian…I hope your wrong. I really do. There are many things that I’m not happy about with NAR but I still look for the good.
October 18, 2007 — 5:57 pm
Los Angeles Real Estate says:
NAR is not in the position to compel realtors to use their platform for blogging.
As mentioned by one of the commenters, “NAR is only a trade organization. Nothing more.”
But it is a completely different story with employing Brokers.
October 21, 2007 — 10:38 pm